The Rules of the game

[lariva]

Since beta, it was nearly impossible to get the rules of the game clearly specified - just to go through a few:

My observations suggest that high level figher + high level mage will dodge a lot more then the same high level mage. Dodge numbers within the game seem to have no meaning, since they are there as well as parry numbers - I want someone to tell me what do they exactly represent.

It seems that Dodge and Parry remain to be a hidden subject; why does my dodge go up wheras my parry does that a LOT slower?

What do the numbers represent? Is it probability of resisting over some arbitrary number, is it percentage of resisting someone 50 levels below???

We are told how much XP we get but we are not told how much XP we need to get through.

Why in the world my heal multiplier is so high and sap gift non-existent? What is this? A counterbalance to unreal amount of damage the mobs do and a way to prevent solo in the game completely?

Why level 200 mage keeps dying to gingoes that are level 30-35 when there are 3 of them? What do the dodge numbers mean?

Does dodge modifier, adversary dodge modifier etc on times work? I have not heard anything other then beta notes on that.

Revealing location of a harvesting source or a missions - will spoil the game play for some. But how telling us what the rules our characters live by are?

The manual is nice, but quite useless - I'd appreciate official post on it.

I'm pretty good with math and logic but some of it - is unreasonable

[vguerin]

It looks like I voted the same way as you... I have "been talked to" by the CSR team for a few times. Most recently was over "The Nexus Challenge" I made... Purposely killing folks in a PvP zone before it was really turned up was a grey area for them I guess...

It turned out to be my single best night of SoR ever... We had a little RP, some gang banging and overall fun.

They can only provide us what is provided by Nevrax, nuff said...

___________________
DoubleTap
Click here to join Melinoe (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=916#916)
Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters
http://ryzom.twazz.net/

[raynes]

It looks like I voted the same way as you... I have "been talked to" by the CSR team for a few times. Most recently was over "The Nexus Challenge" I made... Purposely killing folks in a PvP zone before it was really turned up was a grey area for them I guess...

It turned out to be my single best night of SoR ever... We had a little RP, some gang banging and overall fun.

They can only provide us what is provided by Nevrax, nuff said...

___________________
DoubleTap
Click here to join Melinoe (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=916#916)
Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters
http://ryzom.twazz.net/


The staff spoke to you about purposely killing other players in a PVP zone????

[aylwyne]

I asked a GM about getting official clarification on how dodge/parry really worked and he said it was up to the community to figure out. I got the impression that he really didn't have any stronger understanding than the players did. That's not really surprising as they're not developers and I think only the people that wrote the code truly know the ins and outs of how it works.

[borguk]

I asked a GM about getting official clarification on how dodge/parry really worked and he said it was up to the community to figure out. I got the impression that he really didn't have any stronger understanding than the players did. That's not really surprising as they're not developers and I think only the people that wrote the code truly know the ins and outs of how it works.

I got the same answer and came to the same opinion, I still not exactly sure that adversary dodge modifier does what I think it does, its the difference between using shu or dzao as a grip.

[xenofur]

i have to agree with the original poster, behind this game are very real mathematics, but so much is hidden. in fact too much is hidden, there are many things that have to be tried out to know what happens.
ex.: shields
in real life i know that i can deflect strikes with one if i am successful or at the very least i can take some of the power out of the blow if the shield is pierced or pushed aside
in other games i have numbers that tell me the probability of abovementioned things happening and i can observe them happening
in ryzom i have to get naked and test it in the field and THEN i have to test it with armour, both i have to do extensively in order to just find out IF something is happening

it is beyond my understanding why such things are hidden, i could name a good few examples of games were such things are clearly spelled out. the very least that nevrax owes the players is an explanation of WHY we are kept in the dark. and if they plan on continuing that way it should be a very good explanation.

sidenote about csr personnel, they are not allowed to talk about ingame mechanics and aren't even allowed to acknowledge the existence of bugs.

[lariva]

Which GM was it if you dont mind?

I asked a GM about getting official clarification on how dodge/parry really worked and he said it was up to the community to figure out. I got the impression that he really didn't have any stronger understanding than the players did. That's not really surprising as they're not developers and I think only the people that wrote the code truly know the ins and outs of how it works.

[lariva]

Were you asked to get a written consent from people you are about to kill?
If so - why have a PVP zone, when you cant PVP there?



It looks like I voted the same way as you... I have "been talked to" by the CSR team for a few times. Most recently was over "The Nexus Challenge" I made... Purposely killing folks in a PvP zone before it was really turned up was a grey area for them I guess...

It turned out to be my single best night of SoR ever... We had a little RP, some gang banging and overall fun.

They can only provide us what is provided by Nevrax, nuff said...

___________________
DoubleTap
Click here to join Melinoe (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=916#916)
Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters
http://ryzom.twazz.net/

[vguerin]

Were you asked to get a written consent from people you are about to kill?
If so - why have a PVP zone, when you cant PVP there?I wont get into details, too many folks like to name names and such... Basically I think they were not ready for full out PvP challenges since it was fresh at the time. Publicly challenging everyone in Klients while we waited for the server to come up, and taunting folks (and it so worked, thank god, it was a riot) outright and such...

Pretty much I was told I was being watched...

___________________
DoubleTap
Click here to join Melinoe (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=916#916)
Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters
http://ryzom.twazz.net/

[raynes]

I wont get into details, too many folks like to name names and such... Basically I think they were not ready for full out PvP challenges since it was fresh at the time. Publicly challenging everyone in Klients while we waited for the server to come up, and taunting folks (and it so worked, thank god, it was a riot) outright and such...

Pretty much I was told I was being watched...

___________________
DoubleTap
Click here to join Melinoe (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=916#916)
Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters
http://ryzom.twazz.net/


I'm jealous, I want to be watched to. lol

[vguerin]

I'm jealous, I want to be watched to. lolYou must have some Sexah black Zorai LA :cool:

[lariva]

Secret Police?
It is interesting how things pan out - first a feature is introduced, then you start using a feature and you are told it is wrong to do what you do; even through you do exactly what was intended.

When entering PVP zone, you should be ready - period. If you are not, dont enter.

What ticks me off - is GMs capability to provide support. No names here but some of them should be answering phones with level 1 helpdesk.


Nevrax should really think about those things before deploying something in the game - i dont think they are in a position where loosing players is an option. And telling people they use the feature the wrong way .... hey, there is always WOW and a few others.




I wont get into details, too many folks like to name names and such... Basically I think they were not ready for full out PvP challenges since it was fresh at the time. Publicly challenging everyone in Klients while we waited for the server to come up, and taunting folks (and it so worked, thank god, it was a riot) outright and such...

Pretty much I was told I was being watched...

___________________
DoubleTap
Click here to join Melinoe (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=916#916)
Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
Melinoe - Atys Harvesters
http://ryzom.twazz.net/

[xcomvic]

I wont get into details, too many folks like to name names and such... Basically I think they were not ready for full out PvP challenges since it was fresh at the time. Publicly challenging everyone in Klients while we waited for the server to come up, and taunting folks (and it so worked, thank god, it was a riot) outright and such...

Pretty much I was told I was being watched...



I congratulate myself on joining the ranks of The Watched...

[lariva]

Why dont you join the watchers and hang around with a big group of NPCs?
I congratulate myself on joining the ranks of The Watched...

[xcomvic]

Hmmm... not a bad idea....

[lariva]

Just dont go by the ramp :P
Hmmm... not a bad idea....

[gddss]

I would certainly like to see things spelled out more clearly so we know if things are bugs or just stuff we have to work on and/or figure out. It has been my experience when dealing with GM's, they most often times don't know if something is a bug or not. I would rather know something is or is not a bug so I don't waste my time or breath trying to get an answer from a GM when they don't even know.

[xcomvic]

To something that is hot right now, Training Mobs, I think that if the devs didnt want it to happen, they would have nerfed something to prevent it. TRAINING MOBs is part of the game. Unintentionally, intentionally, it does not matter, it will happen. That is how the game is set. How could anyone possibily say it's harrassment, when this is a MMO ROLE PLAYING GAME, as such, I have paid as well as others to live out my life as I see fit... In a game, if someone wants to be evil, he is evil, but I guess no one can be evil in Ryzom or they will just get told by the GMs that they are being watched for trying to play the game as they see fit. If there is an evil in Ryzom, then homins need to erradicate it. You see Kitin invading? What do you do? Kill it... good... you see someone training mobs? What do you do? Go against him IN GAME, not out... this isn't kindergarden folks...

[xenofur]

I would rather know something is or is not a bug so I don't waste my time or breath trying to get an answer from a GM when they don't even know.like i said above, they are not allowed to even acknowledge the existance of bugs

[gddss]

like i said above, they are not allowed to even acknowledge the existance of bugs

As for them not acknowledging bugs, someone is breaking the rules then because I've had bugs confirmed by a GM and so have a few other people I know. But regardless of that, if we had clearly stated rules, we would know if it was a bug or not.

[lariva]

While this is completely off subject - training mobs is a part of a game, so should be PVP. If you train mobs on me , let me deal with it my own way.
Give it a shot and train some mobs over to my party in roots or Nexus, the reaction will be immedieate, more likely then not way before you come up close enough.

The point that i'm trying to make is that if you want to grief others - others should be able to do something about it that way, it is a part of the game, and no complaining should be filed.

Comparing to other games, in ultima online you could train mobs and it was a part of the game and in some cases, pvp tactics, but when I saw someone do it to me, i would first kill that someone first (if i could) then drop to a swarm of mobs - then we would say 'noob' and 'owned' while bing in a ghost state looking at our bodies being looted by someone else.

Contrasting with that - in trammel which was a non-pvp zone in UO trailing mobs would get you a 3, then 7 then permanent ban for harrassement. Why? Because when you do it, there is nothing anyone can do about it.

All of this is raised to exponential power as in UO 3 - 4 very high level monsters would not be able to kill a high level mage with healing.
In ryzom 2 is plenty to do the work.



To something that is hot right now, Training Mobs, I think that if the devs didnt want it to happen, they would have nerfed something to prevent it. TRAINING MOBs is part of the game. Unintentionally, intentionally, it does not matter, it will happen. That is how the game is set. How could anyone possibily say it's harrassment, when this is a MMO ROLE PLAYING GAME, as such, I have paid as well as others to live out my life as I see fit... In a game, if someone wants to be evil, he is evil, but I guess no one can be evil in Ryzom or they will just get told by the GMs that they are being watched for trying to play the game as they see fit. If there is an evil in Ryzom, then homins need to erradicate it. You see Kitin invading? What do you do? Kill it... good... you see someone training mobs? What do you do? Go against him IN GAME, not out... this isn't kindergarden folks...

[xenofur]

As for them not acknowledging bugs, someone is breaking the rules then because I've had bugs confirmed by a GM and so have a few other people I know. But regardless of that, if we had clearly stated rules, we would know if it was a bug or not.did you have them really confirm it or did they just say "yea, might be a bug, i'll forward it to nevrax"? also, was it a guide or senior guide or a gm?

[gddss]

did you have them really confirm it or did they just say "yea, might be a bug, i'll forward it to nevrax"? also, was it a guide or senior guide or a gm?

When I asked if it was a bug, they acknowledged it was a problem and it wasn't supposed to be that way and that it was being worked on. As for their rank, I have no idea, but I would imagine that shouldn't make a difference as to the rules especially if it's something Nevrax doesn't want it's players knowing.

[lariva]

Most of time times (except for a single GM) it goes like this: Sorry I can not help you with that.

did you have them really confirm it or did they just say "yea, might be a bug, i'll forward it to nevrax"? also, was it a guide or senior guide or a gm?

[raynes]

To something that is hot right now, Training Mobs, I think that if the devs didnt want it to happen, they would have nerfed something to prevent it. TRAINING MOBs is part of the game. Unintentionally, intentionally, it does not matter, it will happen. That is how the game is set. How could anyone possibily say it's harrassment, when this is a MMO ROLE PLAYING GAME, as such, I have paid as well as others to live out my life as I see fit... In a game, if someone wants to be evil, he is evil, but I guess no one can be evil in Ryzom or they will just get told by the GMs that they are being watched for trying to play the game as they see fit. If there is an evil in Ryzom, then homins need to erradicate it. You see Kitin invading? What do you do? Kill it... good... you see someone training mobs? What do you do? Go against him IN GAME, not out... this isn't kindergarden folks...

I couldn't agree more. The game is starting to go into full gear. If some players can't handle the fact that Ryzom is a dangerious place, then they need to either learn to handle it or go play another game.

As to the subject on hand. You will never get a detailed explaination on how things work or the formulias used. It would open the door to exploit city. I've played 4 MMO's for an extended period of time and not one of them every gave details on how things were calculated. Should their be an explaination on what things are, yes. Should there be a basic explaination on how things work, yes. Should the devs tell us how player stats are calculted, no.

[lariva]

The formula's can stay hidden, at least the rules such as:

Combining multiple levels of offensive skills will result in higher defense rating applicable to both skills

or

Combining multiple levels of offensive skills will result in higher defense rating applicable to highest skill

or

Dodge/Parry capabiltities are based on the highest skill

or

Resist numbers identify (casters level / by resist number)-20 probability of landing a spell.

how is that going to allow for exploits?




I couldn't agree more. The game is starting to go into full gear. If some players can't handle the fact that Ryzom is a dangerious place, then they need to either learn to handle it or go play another game.

As to the subject on hand. You will never get a detailed explaination on how things work or the formulias used. It would open the door to exploit city. I've played 4 MMO's for an extended period of time and not one of them every gave details on how things were calculated. Should their be an explaination on what things are, yes. Should there be a basic explaination on how things work, yes. Should the devs tell us how player stats are calculted, no.

[raynes]

The formula's can stay hidden, at least the rules such as:

Combining multiple levels of offensive skills will result in higher defense rating applicable to both skills

or

Combining multiple levels of offensive skills will result in higher defense rating applicable to highest skill

or

Dodge/Parry capabiltities are based on the highest skill

or

Resist numbers identify (casters level / by resist number)-20 probability of landing a spell.

how is that going to allow for exploits?


They wouldn't, I would consider that generalities. Suggest they add that stuff to the help files.

[lariva]

In that case, perhaps poeple should start dropping questions into here - God willing someone from dev area will answer.

They wouldn't, I would consider that generalities. Suggest they add that stuff to the help files.

[mrshad]

I couldn't agree more. The game is starting to go into full gear. If some players can't handle the fact that Ryzom is a dangerious place, then they need to either learn to handle it or go play another game.


There is a substantial difference in dealing with PVP in known PVP areas, and having a pathetic mek jockey see how many mobs he can train on you.

In the first case, I can fight back, and I elected to put myself in danger.
In the second, ther really isn't anything I can do.

If all of Atys were open PVP, things would be very different. Not neccisarily better, but different.

[xenofur]

Most of time times (except for a single GM) it goes like this: Sorry I can not help you with that.exactly what i was sayingAs to the subject on hand. You will never get a detailed explaination on how things work or the formulias used. It would open the door to exploit city. I've played 4 MMO's for an extended period of time and not one of them every gave details on how things were calculated. Should their be an explaination on what things are, yes. Should there be a basic explaination on how things work, yes. Should the devs tell us how player stats are calculted, no.please try downloading the game from www.adom.de there are a lot of formulas in the manual and ingame, then tell me how i cna exploit using these =)In that case, perhaps poeple should start dropping questions into here - God willing someone from dev area will answer.wouldn't do much good, the devs don't read here, the gms can't answer questions pertaining game play mechanics. all that would happen is that cerest or another forum active gm forwards those questions to nevrax, there they go to the pr department. as they can't forward them to the devs without a ticket number it would have to be a priority request to result in answers. :/

[lariva]

With open pvp; there has to be a penalty for PK - otherwise some players (no names) will proclaim victory and shoot anything that moves around. I already get that from time to time. I say open the entire server to PVP, implement a count system - 5 kills within predefined timeperiod and the next death results in 10% stat loss (that is 20 levels for those that cant count)

Ultima online had it near-perfect; you could PK anyone you wanted, if you did it often enough, you'd go Red and can be attacked by anyone anywhere, and when you die if your short term count is higher then 5 - you loose something like 20% of your skill stats.

Were there PKs? Sure there were
Were those PKs annoying other people by killing them? Sure they did
Did those people kill PKs? all the time
Was it a problem for game play? not at all

When my character would get 4 murder counts, I would get very careful about what I do - going red was bad for my business. Going red and then normal 3 times - on the 4th time, you would become permemently red (very bad idea if you enjoy doing anything other then killing ppl)

Did i kill people just for a hell of it - no i didnt, i picked up a count or two when i needed to teach someone a lesson.

But then again, looting was allowed, so kill them, loot them naked and then throw out the stuff :)





There is a substantial difference in dealing with PVP in known PVP areas, and having a pathetic mek jockey see how many mobs he can train on you.

In the first case, I can fight back, and I elected to put myself in danger.
In the second, ther really isn't anything I can do.

If all of Atys were open PVP, things would be very different. Not neccisarily better, but different.

[bodywand]

What I want to see is the ability to declare war on a guild.. opening PvP for those guilds to all regions. Right now, PvP is in the game, but it isn't. You have to try very hard to find someone to kill in this game. I'm tempted to start killing harvesters (no big deal really since there is no penalty except having to return to the harvest spot.. no DP, nothing looted). It would at least cause them to retaliate or bring guards or something. The level grind is getting more and more boring as skill after skill pops over 150. I've even made a point of going afk in PvP zones with full armor and weapons equipped.. near portals or tps, and haven't been touched after hours of standing. I've been bowed to, waved at, talked to, but never attacked. Bleh.. people need to realize how much fun a guild war is.

[raynes]

What I want to see is the ability to declare war on a guild.. opening PvP for those guilds to all regions. Right now, PvP is in the game, but it isn't. You have to try very hard to find someone to kill in this game. I'm tempted to start killing harvesters (no big deal really since there is no penalty except having to return to the harvest spot.. no DP, nothing looted). It would at least cause them to retaliate or bring guards or something. The level grind is getting more and more boring as skill after skill pops over 150. I've even made a point of going afk in PvP zones with full armor and weapons equipped.. near portals or tps, and haven't been touched after hours of standing. I've been bowed to, waved at, talked to, but never attacked. Bleh.. people need to realize how much fun a guild war is.

The thing to keep in mind is that sort of thing is much more fun when lots people people are involved. Two weeks ago the game and it's players were in a state of limbo. No one did anything out of line, no one really went after other groups of players, everyone was in their comfy shoes. Now there are alliances being formed, enemies being found, players getting ready to take down other players. It's growing by the day too. Now is the time when we build up to the stuff you crave. Things are going to be much more thrilling if there is a overall feeling of war by most players.

On the other hand if you really want to start sturring things up, start attacking the people that you find in the roots. They will cry and moan that they don't want to be attacked, but hey they are in a pvp area. Just know that you might end up like me with many players thinking you are out to spoil their fun.

[josephm]

I totally agree with Fist. PvP is non-existant in this game. I come from a game where if you get pk'd it's your fault, and you can be fully looted. In fact if you die from mobs you better get back to your corpse before someone else loots it.

I'm not saying Ryzom should be the same, nor am I for inflicting the penalties that someone else suggested because this is neither the game I come from nor UO.

All of this applies to the rules as well. However I believe it is Nevrax's duty to respond to this in like manner. As an example of how rules could be different in two types of player areas: Animal Training
PvP areas there are no restrictions. Players have a right to defend themselves and can do it fairly easily.
Non-PvP areas should disallow mob training by making mobs non-agro vs riders. Problem solved.

That was just an example. It's not by any means an arguement.

Regarding Stats etc. A little clarification would be nice...less french more english on the US server etc. They're problably having difficulty getting all things translated much less writing explicit manuals. It's up to us to help them by sending in tickets for corrections.

I myself am guilty of this. I click 'unmount' on my mektoub and never send in a ticket that it should be 'dismount'. I think that other people have problably sent it in...then I wonder if everyone else thinks that to.

[sathla]

the most PvP i've seen was the gladiator event, and the first CP guild meeting i attended. we need to steal more people from other MMO's and get some real good fights going on.

[lariva]

Unmount is fine, illiterate, but fine - how about all that french text? I have 0 desire to learn french....

As for guild wars - they should exist, i do, however, think that the real wars will be across lands (fyros vs mats vs zori vs tryker) and not withn the same land. Mostly (judging from experience) people within the same land all know each other - and i personally have very few matis based characters I'd like to shoot up.

The other component of the pvp is near-requirement for teleportation into a free area. If I know exactly where a person will pop up (there are only so many teleporters within reasonable distance). I'll just stand and wait, there is no way for the entire party to go trough at once, there is no way to teleport back if there is danger, and any character is defensless for the first 10-15 seconds after the teleport. I need to see what is around me before i can act, not to mention i need to be able to target, cast etc... and all of that, is in addition to character poping up before graphics finish loading.


One last point, non-agro vs rider is a bad idea;- with that logic i can hop on and ride anywhere i want without any (however slim) chance of dying.

I think mobs should have 2 modes - run and walk, start walking for 2 seconds, then start running. Walking is current speed. Running is 2x of that. Along wit that - allow casting /fighting/shooting from the mount.


I totally agree with Fist. PvP is non-existant in this game. I come from a game where if you get pk'd it's your fault, and you can be fully looted. In fact if you die from mobs you better get back to your corpse before someone else loots it.

I'm not saying Ryzom should be the same, nor am I for inflicting the penalties that someone else suggested because this is neither the game I come from nor UO.

All of this applies to the rules as well. However I believe it is Nevrax's duty to respond to this in like manner. As an example of how rules could be different in two types of player areas: Animal Training
PvP areas there are no restrictions. Players have a right to defend themselves and can do it fairly easily.
Non-PvP areas should disallow mob training by making mobs non-agro vs riders. Problem solved.

That was just an example. It's not by any means an arguement.

Regarding Stats etc. A little clarification would be nice...less french more english on the US server etc. They're problably having difficulty getting all things translated much less writing explicit manuals. It's up to us to help them by sending in tickets for corrections.

I myself am guilty of this. I click 'unmount' on my mektoub and never send in a ticket that it should be 'dismount'. I think that other people have problably sent it in...then I wonder if everyone else thinks that to.

[perrako]

Just posting here to point something out:
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8574
Seriously folks! Use the guide forum before whining!

[xenofur]

yes and our point is, this should be in the damn manual instead of having us guess wtf is going on ôô

[predzz]

From past experience its pretty obvious Nevrax wants people to communicate, ask eachother questions. Discover things on their own, etc.

They pretty much give you the basics how to play the game. All the tricks however you gotta learn yourself. It makes the game a bit more challenging, seeing as they give you a lot of freedom. You can become anything you want, do almost everything you want, no restrictions.

This is perfectly fine with me. I don't expect them to tell me all the missions that give rites, which bonuses they give, what mobs give the best XP, should i use dodge or parry, what resists does that mob have, which mobs are aggro, what is the best way to lvl skill x, where all the best mats are located, etc...

Sometimes you need to learn game mechanisms using the trial and error method, its encouraging you to try out new stuff.

I could go on and on, i think you get the point, but...
Why ask other people if its in the manual anyway?

(btw, parry can be higher than dodge...)

[josephm]

Lariva I was making a point of how different types of player environments should be treated differently if Ryzom chooses not to chase down every person who breaks a 'supposed' rule. In other words, I voted the storyline (though I took it more as game play environment) should dictate the rules. This saves the GMs a lot of time to take care of real issues like bugs, french text, etc.

Game mechanics such as what Perrako was about to figure out about dodge/parry I believe should be hidden and not in the manual. Especially when it comes to rite given stanzas. #1 they need to be secret till earned. #2 the maximized output of skills should be attained as you use it.

So I guess I kinda vote all three depending on what type of information people want.

[xenofur]

I could go on and on, i think you get the point, but...
Why ask other people if its in the manual anyway?

(btw, parry can be higher than dodge...)because other people don't necessarily know the truth, while a manual would hold the state that is aimed at by the developers. just take dodge/parry as an example.

observation: equipping a shield or a weapon changes my parry value
observation: nothing i do except for leveling up raises my dodge value, the only thing that happens is penalties for heavy armour

question: is this as intended?

facts: i don't know. i feel it is bugged. gms don't know. gms are prohibited from telling me if it is or not. other players don't know either.

problem: noone except for nevrax knows, everyone else is merely guessing.

my point: communication doesn't help in the least here, since noone can tell me if it is as intended. if this information was available in the manual i'd either know it works as intended or that it is bugged.

[josephm]

nono man it's not bugged it totally makes sense.

only through kung fu can parry perfectly with his hands. Weapons means you have to dodge less and can parry without fear of breaking an arm or having it sliced off. Armor doesn't affect parry but if affects dodge.

When you dodge, it's a naturally inherent skill, when you aren't wearing anything, or wearing lighter items, you can skip around easier. When you wear armor however, the heavier it is the harder it's going to be for you to move about.

I don't know exactly what a parry modifiers on armor...I'm not sure if they work. Dodge armor must mean that the items you are wearing means that they are more limber. More joints or flexibility that will allow you to move unencumbered. You could say that lightness would affect this, and to an extent it should. However for the purpose of the game we can say that if a person makes an item that is light, but still utilizes the bulk of heavy armor, that it doesn't have the nessicary joints that allow for freedom in all forms of movement.

edit: If parry modifiers work on armor, I'm at work and can't test..I'd have to say they reduce parry just as they reduce dodge due to encomberance and restrictiveness. Weapons and shields are the only thing that can raise parry above it's natural level.

[xenofur]

sorry, but it's making absolutely no sense

parry mod only comes from weapons, that makes sense so far, the kind of weapon determines how well you can parry without injuring yourself

now if i were to don a standard npc bought heavy armor i get a whopping -2 penalty on my dodge
if i make it from mats which have a high dodge modifier like visc sap, moon resin and shu fiber, guess what it does, it still gives me a -2 penalty

so there are two possibilities: the dodge modifier on the armour means nothing at all(when crafting) or it is broken, which it is can noone reading and writing here say for sure

[josephm]

Have you tried buying armor with non dodge modifier and seen how low the penalty is?
We also can't really see the dodge stats on items post-crafting. Even a supreme item of dodge could have sacrificed 100% dodge because they were missing a mat and used something like higher lightness.

or

a max dodge crafted set of heavy could still bring you just below normal dodge due to the nature of heavy armor. In other words, yes you are manuverable but the fact remains that it's a heavy suit of armor.

like I said I'm not at home so all I can do is offer you suggestions if you are on trying these things out.

[lariva]

I'm not sure it works perfectly -
What about dodge modifiers on armors and weapons - when i create a full dodge armor - is my dodge increasing or not?

When I create magic amp with full dodge mod and sacrofice sap load (which i do need as well) how much dodge benefit do i get?

Why is my parry going up too slow compared to dodge - do parry numbers represent something different then dodge numbers?

What about resistance to spells? Is Offensive 200 mage & Melee 200 will have better chance of resisting then just offensive 200 mage or just melee 200?

What about dodging in the same context as point above?


All of those items do not apply to storyline in any direct way - those are high level game mechanics that MUST be explained to a reasonable degree.

Before I spend time and advance my skill, I'd like to understand what in the world that skill will give me. When I'm advancing magery to 200 and see my friend dodging a lot more at magery 200 and fighting 140 I'm thinking to myself that perhaps i should take up fighting and get it to 150
Therefore, I will do that, spend 5 days getting my fighting from 59 to 150 and I will be extremelly pissed if i see that my dodge factors have not changed and it was simply an erronious observation.

The same applies to a lot of other game concepts as well.

I dont want to know who gives out rites and how to get them, what i need to understand is how skills cross-affect one another. There is a big difference in it.


nono man it's not bugged it totally makes sense.

only through kung fu can parry perfectly with his hands. Weapons means you have to dodge less and can parry without fear of breaking an arm or having it sliced off. Armor doesn't affect parry but if affects dodge.

When you dodge, it's a naturally inherent skill, when you aren't wearing anything, or wearing lighter items, you can skip around easier. When you wear armor however, the heavier it is the harder it's going to be for you to move about.

I don't know exactly what a parry modifiers on armor...I'm not sure if they work. Dodge armor must mean that the items you are wearing means that they are more limber. More joints or flexibility that will allow you to move unencumbered. You could say that lightness would affect this, and to an extent it should. However for the purpose of the game we can say that if a person makes an item that is light, but still utilizes the bulk of heavy armor, that it doesn't have the nessicary joints that allow for freedom in all forms of movement.

edit: If parry modifiers work on armor, I'm at work and can't test..I'd have to say they reduce parry just as they reduce dodge due to encomberance and restrictiveness. Weapons and shields are the only thing that can raise parry above it's natural level.

[lariva]

And that is eactly my point - we should not try 100000 different things to determine the rules. When you get your driver's license you dont get on the road and try to figure out what that yellow lane means. You dont go argue a legal case without knowning underlying laws which affect your argument.

How is this different? Why should i be trying 10000 different things that say "A" but might mean "B" Am I employed by Nevrax to debug their code, if so I'd like a salary check in my mailbox.

When need to i debug software at work and i get payed very well for doing so; I'm not coming home to play a guess game with things that should have been spelled out from get go, I would much rather unfold the storyline and enjoy the game, not its mechanics.


If the dodge mod on weapons/armor is broken - tell me. If reported dodge numbers are broken - tell me. 50% of the stuff here dont make sense.


Have you tried buying armor with non dodge modifier and seen how low the penalty is?
We also can't really see the dodge stats on items post-crafting. Even a supreme item of dodge could have sacrificed 100% dodge because they were missing a mat and used something like higher lightness.

or

a max dodge crafted set of heavy could still bring you just below normal dodge due to the nature of heavy armor. In other words, yes you are manuverable but the fact remains that it's a heavy suit of armor.

like I said I'm not at home so all I can do is offer you suggestions if you are on trying these things out.

[jtgrizom]

We are told how much XP we get but we are not told how much XP we need to get through.



You need around 550 times your level. So at level 100 you need 55 000.
To get from 1 to 250 you should need around 17 mil, if my memory serves me right.
There. Are you happy now!?


Now about the discussion.
I don't see an option in the pool of "in between, the skills and stanzas are described in more detail but not game mechanics". That's the one I'd vote on.

That would be enough for the people starting and for the casual players and wouldn't spoil the game for others who like to figure out that kind of thing.

So my suggestion is that you can post some questions to start discussion and you'll probably see some of the results of the testing some people have done.

[lyrah68]

On the subject of GM's. I have noticed their responce time is fast. If they can help, they do. They are respectful, NOT short tempered or rude (more than I can say for ten other games I either played or tested).

I have had times I was told "Yes that is a known bug, it is on the must fix list, but thank you for the report, if it is not fixed in next patch, please report via the out of game ticket system", on game mechanics, yes I have gotten the "sorry, can help there" line.

You have to remember that these GM's are at work, they are not in game or on forum representing THEMSELVES, they are representatives of the game, regardless of who actually pays their checks. I am more than certain that some of them truly would LOVE to spill anything they know, some know more than we do, some don't know as much as we do, some don't care to know and just want to help as much as they are allowed to (and get paid).

The idea that GM's and devs are "out to get me" is PURE EQ mentality, until you provide me with parsed logs...I don't buy that they are stalking anyone, nor intent to harm any player NOR the game.

And I feel that those that DO think that should consult their doctor, it is time to up the meds.

[jackmor]

I normaly dont add to post when they get this long unless their my own. But this one touched a nerve.

You talk about dodge and parry numbers and what they mean. Thats a great question.

We all know how complex these programs can get. Well imagine if you lost control of it.

Its becoming very aparrant why no one can get a clear answer about some aspects of the game. There have been so many tweeks and changes they are not sure anymore.

[lariva]

It is useless.

Just posting here to point something out:
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8574
Seriously folks! Use the guide forum before whining!

[lariva]

Mybe poll was not titled propertly - I'm asking for the rules, not game mechanics.

You need around 550 times your level. So at level 100 you need 55 000.
To get from 1 to 250 you should need around 17 mil, if my memory serves me right.
There. Are you happy now!?


Now about the discussion.
I don't see an option in the pool of "in between, the skills and stanzas are described in more detail but not game mechanics". That's the one I'd vote on.

That would be enough for the people starting and for the casual players and wouldn't spoil the game for others who like to figure out that kind of thing.

So my suggestion is that you can post some questions to start discussion and you'll probably see some of the results of the testing some people have done.

[lariva]

Its becoming very aparrant why no one can get a clear answer about some aspects of the game. There have been so many tweeks and changes they are not sure anymore.

I'm trylly afraid you are correct:)