Racial Abilities, Patch 2 Discussion

[warspawn]

Just thought I'd start a thread seeking input about racial abilities and what thoughts the community may have on the possibilities. Early in beta 'Job Sets' were discussed, with each race having an afinity for certain skills. IE, for Trykers, the job sets are listed here:


http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=38

So, for a Tryker Shadowhunter, this description opens up many possiblities:
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TRYKER RANGER : THE SHADOW HUNTER
The Trykers have applied their talent for dodging problems to hunting. They can move around among predators without attracting their attention, so that they can strike at the best time. They prefer to keep danger at arm's length and use mainly long-range weapons for hunting. They hunt animals and avoid plants, as they fear the anger of the Kamis. Having lived in a lakeside environment for many generations, they have also learnt to hunt underwater and to extract resources from the bottom of lakes.
-----------

Here's the links to the rest of the racial job sets:

Fyros:
http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=36

Matis:
http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=37

Zorai:
http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=39

All of these lead to unique possiblities and career paths for each race. How much do you think will be implemented? What do you find most fascinating?

------
Javance Battleborne Stormhavenguild@aol.com
XO of Stormhaven http://stormhaven.brokepawn.com

[ayne31]

I hope I am allowed to repost here what I said in an own thread but it fits perfectly: ;)

Right now every race is absolutely equal. It makes no difference regarding your skills, abilities and developement. even the mobs have most likely 100% the different stats under their textures.

But that is GOOD because if one race had p.e. +5 CON and -5 INT every would-be uber warrior will chose this one with no magic oriented player touching it.

Its also BAD because theres no reason to think about what you are going to play except for the landscape and worse theres no reason to try a character of every race as there is nothing to *try*.

Once there gonna be racial diversities probably some will be happy ("thats exactly the archetype I llike!" ) and some annoyed ("Why can MY race not do/get this??? )

It will be very hard to implement racial distinctions in a patch that goes live 2 months after the most dedicated players decided for a race as they wont accept sudden disadvantages like skill caps or unavailability of high lvl spells they knew nothing about at charcter creation.

Imo racial diversity has to be somthing that will make a difference in the long run only and mustn't include "exclusive" inate abilities or benefits that makes other races incabable of crafting certain things/travel to cetrtain regions/ get certain spells etc. On the other hand has something to be done to make charakters actually HAVE to travel and build faction with other races.

My proposal for a specialization at creation is one that is coherent with the racial theme so people get what they *can* expect.
Fyros example:
1. choice of fight 3 pack as the only race
2. fight packs include 1: armor/boots 2: weapon/1-hand 1H 3: shield/buckler (regarding packs It would really help if taking a pack 2 or 3 give more diversity. Craft pack 3 with just including 3 light armor plans is not very attractive)
3. choice of magic pack 1 or 2 only
4. Harvesting for weapon mats earlier in the skill tree or cheaper while harvesting for magic focus mats more expensive or later in the skill tree
5. Missions and mats accordingly more available for meleeweapons/armor while less for jewelery and magic focus mats.

All this doesnt mean that they have advantages or disadvantages that will last - they only have an easier/faster path to certain skills and a harder one to others.

In the long run lvl 40+ trainers could be unable to teach certain skills further to their own race so players are forced to travel and build faction to exceed in a certain skill (this is the one thing theat definitely works great in EQ in this way reagarding spells and tradeskills). Also certain quality mats could only to be found in certain environments.

What would really make a difference would be hazardous environments that make it harder for certain races to even be there. Since the penalty system is allready implemented for armor it could work for the environment too. Giving a 1-5% penalty would not stop anyone from entering a given zone but it would greatly enhance the *natural* feeling.

The one thing I would HATE to see is that each race gets ablities (inate or to be aquired) that NO other race can even come near to. The Tryker mentioned above for example: I see no problem if they get the inate ability to breath underwater and get spells exclusively that give a breathe underwater aura. But then at least everyone else should be able to wear some kind of aqualung - if I had to visit a Tryker trainer to learn how to craft those as no other races trainer would teach it it would still be ok with me personally :)

[neiana]

Iif I had to visit a Tryker trainer to learn how to craft those as no other races trainer would teach it it would still be ok with me personally :)


You know, this statement alone I like. The rest of the post is kinda bleh to me. But that last statement more than makes up for it.

Let's continue in the example of the Tryker, we are of Wind and Water. So for example we get a special water attack (magic), or wind attack (melee, tornado spin or something) that is unavailable for other racial trainers to train. Now, rather than merely running to the lakelands to acquire this skill, you should do Tryker missions to raise fame with the race first.

This would be acceptable to me.


Another alternative, and one that I particularly would find interesting: (please read all if you intend to comment)

a Tryker magician would get a water damage spell that NO other race could acquire under any means - but would not do any good whatsoever in the lakelands. After all, the critters live around the water, why should it damage them? Anyway, give the Fyros a fire spell and Matis/Zorai other spells etc that work similarly and then you can even count weaknesses here. A Tryker who travels to Pyr could use water damage with a higher percentage of effectiveness than any other spell damage. Water on Fire, right? The Fyros fire spell would be best in the Matis Jungles, Matis best in Zorai and Zorai in Tryker. This would also benefit an invaded land against agressors, say the Fyros attacked the Tryker lakelands... it would be a little easier to hold them off than if the Matis attacked.

This would give every race something 100% unique to their lore, but would not give them an *advantage* anywhere but a selected location. Since Trykers are supposed to be friends with the Fyros, it would be bad to go attacking their outposts, and on down the line. This would also encourage players to travel.

There are downsides to this, of course. You'd have an ability that is completely useless in your own land, equal in 2 other lands, higher in 1 other land, and equal in the roots. To effectively balance this, just give less XP for using said skill - that way everything really does balance out, and you'd have to travel to use your special skills.

- N

[ayne31]

The rest of the post is kinda bleh to me. But that last statement more than makes up for it. Unfortunately your post had nothing that made up for this statement.

Furthermore I like the idea of hazardous environments more and more.

I am just imagining my toon clad in some cold-protective suit (one more option to crafters) to forage in the *northern wastelands* with me watching his health and sta dropping slowly and trying to calculate how long my prospector can survive in here even without any mobs taking notice of him.....

[smirch]

Clicky Central
-----------------
Tryker (http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=38)

Zorai (http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=39)

Matis (http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=37)

Fyros (http://ryzom.mmoworlds.com/index.php?s={sessID}&page=articles&idart=36)

[neiana]

Unfortunately your post had nothing that made up for this statement.

We have different ideas of fun. I am tired of playing the same character with the same skills no matter what race I pick. It's in 90% of the games of most genres. I want an experience that is actually different.


SMIRCH: Those are probably a year old. It may still happen tho, they looked pretty darn cool in the teaser video.

- N

[ayne31]

We have different ideas of fun. N We probably have - I am just sick of archetypes, what i dont need is just another (clevery disguised) cleric/ranger/paladin/druid/etc. game ;)

I state it clearly - if Nevrax introduces racial inate abilities or skill paths that are NOT open to other races they betrayed people like me.

I have not paid 50 bucks to become a beta tester for SoR before the *final* version goes life and be forced to reroll every character because the playing field will not stay as leveled as it is now.

[neiana]

We probably have - I am just sick of archetypes, what i dont need is just another (clevery disguised) cleric/ranger/paladin/druid/etc. game ;)

I state it clearly - if Nevrax introduces racial inate abilities or skill paths that are NOT open to other races they betrayed people like me.

I have not paid 50 bucks to become a beta tester for SoR before the *final* version goes life and be forced to reroll every character because the playing field will not stay as leveled as it is now.


Well, without racial differences we will *ALL* be one big archetype. Fighter, Magician, Harvest or Crafter ^_~

And I did miss the short bit on hazardous environments.. however, it's exactly the same as my post but without the racial interraction ;)

- N

[ayne31]

Well, without racial differences we will *ALL* be one big archetype. Fighter, Magician, Harvest or Crafter ^_~ This is a matter that can be discussed of course.

But it can NOT be discussed if Nevrax does patch the game not to version 1.x.y but version 2.0.0

In that case it would have been only fair to wait for release until the racial system was fully fledged. I would have been free to identify it as a SF clone of EQ2 in that case and save 50 bucks :/

I am just glad I wasn't in the beta (learned about SoR only about a week ago) otherwise I would possibly be forced to reroll a second time allready....

[vguerin]

Changing racial abilities at this point is a horrible idea... not only has it not been tested, it really hasn't been discussed.

Waiting until after OB1/FBT/OB2/Release to make folks consider other races and take away our current skills is a very bad idea !

Ultimate Harvesting Guide (http://ryzom.twazz.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=4)
http://ryzom.twazz.net/misc/dt_sig.jpg (http://ryzom.twazz.net/)

[mosdef]

i'd love it if the descriptions were true. i chos zorai for the heck of it and after seeing they're supposed to be unarmed fighters is nice. i've always take unarmed in all my mmorpgs. swg- tk master, ragnarok- monk, eq- monk, ffxi- monk, etc.

but as it is we're all the same. everyone learns the same special melee moves, same spells and craft the same weapons.

still fun though!

[ayne31]

i'd love it if the descriptions were true. Don't get me wrong - I'd love this too and I would have started the game with even more enthusiasm if there had been career paths like Fyros fire pike warriors or Tryker underwater ranger from the start.

Its just too late now to change the game on such a scale.

[smirch]

Its just too late now to change the game on such a scale.
From my experience with MMORPGs its neeeeever to late...at least from the devs POV.

[neiana]

Changing racial abilities at this point is a horrible idea... not only has it not been tested, it really hasn't been discussed.

Waiting until after OB1/FBT/OB2/Release to make folks consider other races and take away our current skills is a very bad idea !




From most of your posts you seem intelligent, but I would like to point out something.

They are not going to take skills away. The idea is to *ADD* skills to the game that are racially selective, or special.. Not exactly skills either, as nobody has actually said what will really happen yet.

Furthermore, the whole idea is to *TEST* them on the test server. See the sticky up top about the preorder test server?

And lastly, they can't *change* something that hasn't been implemented yet. There are no CURRENT racial abilities/stats/etc that can be altered. Everything that would be different in this game specific to racial differences would be _additions_.

Kay, I certainly do not mean to appear unkind - but that was kind of an odd post.

- N

[jhaan]

Don't forget the racial faction starting values.

How and when that'll come into play remains to be seen, but if things are done right, it could make a huge difference.

[ayne31]

Kay, I certainly do not mean to appear unkind - but that was kind of an odd post. Well, the message was quite clear and I am on the same side with him. What we are playing on the official servers after BUYING the game must not be the disguised OB3 - and if races are revamped completely it is.

Adding exclusive racial abilities or skills is not taking away anything from the other races characters, thats right - it just makes 25 - 50% of all the choices you took from choosing race over starting packs to skill tree development more or less useless.

Heck, I did spend the last 2 days experimenting to craft the armor and weapons that befit my style of play (in my zone I am the *only* one using a shield so far :D). I hope not to discover in some weeks that my race is the master of unarmed combat (getting a bonus if fighting unarmed and a peanlty even on light armor) or shuns offensive magic (which postpones upgrades for 10 lvlv more than usual)

[neiana]

Heck, I did spend the last 2 days experimenting to craft the armor and weapons that befit my style of play (in my zone I am the *only* one using a shield so far :D). I hope not to discover in some weeks that my race is the master of unarmed combat (getting a bonus if fighting unarmed and a peanlty even on light armor) or shuns offensive magic (which postpones upgrades for 10 lvlv more than usual)


Well, I have to admit I am a little disgruntled that they forced the TRYKER of all races to be loyal and friendly to the Karavan and not the Kami. You'd think with our affinity with Wind and Water, as well as our historical disdain for the Karavan and their ways, that we would be Kami folk.

THAT made me mad.

Anyway, I guess you missed what I was responding to. He said that skills would be *taken away*. The truth is, some magic skills will be taken away - it says so - but the reason is, they are adjusting the cost and they want you to have the points back.

At least they are taking care of this in the first couple of months, rather than waiting 3 years like AC or 5 like EQ.

- N

[svayvti]

Neiana, it is possible for races to change fame alignment and especially players.

It is even possible through the correct missions, though quite difficult to maintain a high kami and tryker fame. Doing courier type missions for your race and kami missions would be an example of that.

Finally if you really do want to join the Kami, perhaps go on a run to the Zorai continent? Eventually guilds like mine will be expanding to all civilizations to reach out to Kami supporters. Even in the Tryker and Matis lands.

[ayne31]

At least they are taking care of this in the first couple of months, rather than waiting 3 years like AC or 5 like EQ. As a long time EQ player I can only agree - 5 years EQ and warriors are still to be nerfed :D

But a company must not actually sell a game thats not finished (in their opinion) - thats nothing less than fraud.

[neiana]

Neiana, it is possible for races to change fame alignment and especially players.

It is even possible through the correct missions, though quite difficult to maintain a high kami and tryker fame. Doing courier type missions for your race and kami missions would be an example of that.

Finally if you really do want to join the Kami, perhaps go on a run to the Zorai continent? Eventually guilds like mine will be expanding to all civilizations to reach out to Kami supporters. Even in the Tryker and Matis lands.


Yes I am aware of it. I just think it's kind of silly that the storyline infers (but never outright says) one thing, then ingame it's different. I also do not want to run to the Zorai, nor do I want to run anywhere else. I am a Tryker. The Zorai locked themselves away - while they are fellow homins, why should I run to their "pure" segregated ways? The Kami came to us first, they came to the Trykers. Not the Zorai, not the Matis, not the Fyros. So why should I go to these racial lands to acquire the Kami love?

*sigh* </end RP rant>

I know far too much about far too little.

But a company must not actually [b]sell[/] a game thats not finished (in their opinion) - thats nothing less than fraud.

Would you have considered AC1 unfinished just because a month later content was introduced that wasn't there at launch? This is what I see the game being... Rather than "everyone on Atys knows everything that they will ever know", this is kind of like "We are currently limited in knowledge, and as time progesses, the homins will learn new skills..." etc.

This to me is not an "unfinished game" (which, by the way, ALL MMOs are and always will be ;)) but rather a game that begins at a certain point and knowledge continues to grow. Kind of like Civilization I-III and Empire Earth/Rise of Nations, but in an MMO setting. THIS is what I've been looking for!

And, while part of it is, infact, just not finished - most of it really is as I mentioned. It was one of the big features of the game, even on the original website roughly 3 years ago.

- N

[svayvti]

The Trykers were closer to the Kami, and the Fyros were closer to the Karavan.

It didn't last long in their history. When the Karavan showed up to the Trykers they quickly turned their backs on the Kami because they were reclusive and hidden. The Kami found in the Zorai a group that was closer to their ideals.. though do the Zorai follow Kami ideals or their own (and manage to be closer in the process)?

Ryzom is not supposed to be a static game, so if you really want to be closer to the Kami as a Tryker.. why not do it? it is possible to do.

[neiana]

The Trykers were closer to the Kami, and the Fyros were closer to the Karavan.

It didn't last long in their history. When the Karavan showed up to the Trykers they quickly turned their backs on the Kami because they were reclusive and hidden. The Kami found in the Zorai a group that was closer to their ideals.. though do the Zorai follow Kami ideals or their own (and manage to be closer in the process)?

Ryzom is not supposed to be a static game, so if you really want to be closer to the Kami as a Tryker.. why not do it? it is possible to do.


Actually, the Kami left the Trykers. *nod*

The Trykers embraced the Kami, after all, they were the ideal model of Tryker lifestyle! Wild... free... fun! When the Fyros miners decided to go in search of the Great Dragon (Fools I tell ya!), they struck a vein of SAP. This began the Fire of Corelieus (SP?). At this time, the Fyros were providing protection to the Tryker in exchange for a water supply... however, when the Fyros had to send massive forces to fight against the fire - the Matis made their move!

This is when a great many of the Tryker race was enslaved. Those who ran, were sought and killed! Why would the Kami stick around? It is most assuredly not that we left the Kami. After wall, Jena and her Karavan are hailed by the Matis - why would we just up and love them afte being brutally murdered and enslaved? Why would the Kami follow us Trykers into the depths of Matis territory from whence the escaped Company of Loria came? They chose not to destroy other homins, but to seek out the now less agitated life of the Zorai.

</end RP rant once again>

I know I can become closer to the Kami, I am attempting to do so.

- N

[ayne31]

And, while part of it is, infact, just not finished - most of it really is as I mentioned. It was one of the big features of the game, even on the original website roughly 3 years ago. Then enlighten me - what player benefiting reason had Nevrax to release the game 2 months before implementing significant additions which where planned roughly 3 years ago? Why not keeping beta open 2 months more?

And to quote from "Gone with the Wind" regarding economical reasons for Nevrax's release policy: "quite frankly my dear I don't give a damn."

[mosdef]

Don't get me wrong - I'd love this too and I would have started the game with even more enthusiasm if there had been career paths like Fyros fire pike warriors or Tryker underwater ranger from the start.

Its just too late now to change the game on such a scale.

i agree 100% with you since as it stands we have now clue how gimped/buffed our characters will be after 2+ months in the game.

as for your post above, their biggest benefit for releasing the game 2 months before these patches came out is WoW and EQ2. both come out on the same day in Nov. unless dates have changed since i last looked.

[fellgrim]

I have a tale for you my friends about how MMORPG devs never learn from the experiences of their peers...

There was a game with great promise about 2 yrs ago called Asherons Call 2...

The companies that were putting this game together panicked at the thought of releasing their game co-currently with the Goliath that was Star Wars Galaxies, so they decided to rush their game out the door to beat the Goliath to retail. They released their game at Thanksgiving when the Goliath was supposed to show itself right around mid-December 2002...

The reality was, the Goliath itself was nowhere near ready to be released, as, after AC2 committed itself to a release date, the Goliath changed its release date to mid-2003. Oops.

The outcome was that AC2 released way too early, with far too many flaws, to ever be a viable MMORPG. And the Goliath went on to be a successful game regardless.

Reflect on this lesson, oh ye devs, and contemplate your own fate.

[nizbar]

Dunno...the linked pages here are from 2003. Its old information and doesn't represent the company's newest ideas on the subject of racial advantages. I've been disappointed by the devs of various games in the past, but digging up information from a year ago and getting all upset about it is premature as well.

[ayne31]

Take a look at the official patch announcement here:http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1013 (the keyword is *big hint*)

...and I see nothing wrong in saying "Don't kick my butt" before it happens ;)

[neiana]

I have a tale for you my friends about how MMORPG devs never learn from the experiences of their peers...

There was a game with great promise about 2 yrs ago called Asherons Call 2...

The companies that were putting this game together panicked at the thought of releasing their game co-currently with the Goliath that was Star Wars Galaxies, so they decided to rush their game out the door to beat the Goliath to retail. They released their game at Thanksgiving when the Goliath was supposed to show itself right around mid-December 2002...

The reality was, the Goliath itself was nowhere near ready to be released, as, after AC2 committed itself to a release date, the Goliath changed its release date to mid-2003. Oops.

The outcome was that AC2 released way too early, with far too many flaws, to ever be a viable MMORPG. And the Goliath went on to be a successful game regardless.

Reflect on this lesson, oh ye devs, and contemplate your own fate.

*laugh* THIS game is in almost better condition than SW:G was at launch. What Goliath? :p Successful yes, good? Go look at the community.


Take a look at the official patch announcement here:http://ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1013 (the keyword is *big hint*)

...and I see nothing wrong in saying "Don't kick my butt" before it happens ;)

What's this got to do with anything? The linked information on MMOWorlds is rather aged, the deves moved to a classless system. I don't get this statement?

- N

[ayne31]

What's this got to do with anything? The linked information on MMOWorlds is rather aged, the deves moved to a classless system. I don't get this statement?

- N maybe you get it once you read this part from the official patch note aloud several times: "You will start to see some divergence among the races abilities. (big hint here)"

[pipfugl]

So many says its too late to implent racial abilities now.. Thats not the way I look at it, "racial ability" sounds like a positive ability not a nerf, so why not welcome it with open arms and make each race a little more unique...
All of those who says that you played beta for so and so long, remember it was just beta not the finished game, if you tried everything in beta made the perfect setup and the character you enjoyed to play, wouldnt you welcome another ability to that char. I know for one I would.
However if theres talk of some negative effect such as certain races get 10 str and -10 int and it would hurt those who had a mage in that race I wouldnt like it either, but I doubt it will be done like that.
When you read the story about the races, they all get mentioned to be children/masters of something (water, fire, earth and something else) so it wouldnt be hard to add a racial bonus, that wouldnt overpower or nerf your character, just make the race more unique.
I am looking forward to this, and I hope theres people out there who thinks of patch 2 the same way

[chevelle]

I think it's a good idea, personally. I've played a lot of MMOs and was shocked to learn that the only difference between the races (besides hystory and factions, ofcourse) was the way they looked.

As long as they dont start messing with our stats in negative ways I don't see the harm in racial abilities. A buff is welcome a nerf is not, eh? ^^

The game seems to be well constructed as is, ofcourse, so as long as they don't tinker too* much I think we'll all be satisfied in the end.

*= EQ revisions, SWG revisions

[nizbar]

My point...is that the informaion on this website is significantly outdated. The diversity stated on the linked website isn't the only way to implement diversity among the races. The thing hasn't even hit the test server yet. Why get all worked up over something that might be completely different? Why not just wait till they introduce it to test and then blast them for their actual ideas rather than their preceived ideas that appear on a website that clearly hasn't been updated for a year?

[ayne31]

Why not release the game after races are as they obviously should have been from the start?

[neiana]

maybe you get it once you read this part from the official patch note aloud several times: "You will start to see some divergence among the races abilities. (big hint here)"

*waves fingers all magic like* oooOOOOoooo! Really, you think "big hint here" after that statement means "we are going to return to something we chose NOT to implement in the game over a year ago" ? -_- Come on! I honestly don't think that's going to be the case! That system is a completely different game, and I don't think they would have spent all the last year+ in beta testing THIS system only to COMPLETELY change it. There is nothing in that statement, or "hint", that could even remotely indicate this.

Maybe, just maybe, all it means is we get different abilities like has been mentioned a time or two already. NOWHERE does it imply the game is going to be a class based system. -_-

And to the rest talking about stat changes. The CM said "racial abilities" not "stats". Not saying that's not what it means, I dunno. However, which so much in the story that could be used, I don't see why they would change the _stats_.

Why not release the game after races are as they obviously should have been from the start?

Why play a game that is static and unchanging? Seriously. Paying monthly to play a game that just sits there.


- N

[ayne31]

Well, I made my point clear i think, so I'll bookmark this thread and rest my case for now.

And I pray to the Kami and Karavan I will NOT have to dig it up again after patch 2 to say: "See? I told you!" ;)

[neiana]

Well, I made my point clear i think, so I'll bookmark this thread and rest my case for now.

And I pray to the Kami and Karavan I will NOT have to dig it up again after patch 2 to say: "See? I told you!" ;)


Well *laugh* I do too. I have been playing this Saga of Ryzom since last .. err.. March/April. I've no wish for it to change that drastically.

- N

[chuangpo]

Well *laugh* I do too. I have been playing this Saga of Ryzom since last .. err.. March/April. I've no wish for it to change that drastically.

- N
I don't know, seems to me that there is a whole lot of alarmist Macarthian speculation going on here. We have no idea whats going to be released, no idea how drastic it will be. I know that coming from a place like SWG (as I did) you have every tendancy to be distrustful of the Devs, but I think we should all just give these guys a break and see what they can do. They are not SOE. Let's not chop off thier heads before they have a chance to use them. If they implement it on test and it doens't work, well, then we have something to discuss, but there is no need to get up in arms about it until then. We all want to see this game do well and we all enjoy it (that's why we're here, right?). They have never said what the nature of the changes will be other than being racially-motivated. Lets cut these guys a break and see what they can do.

Chuangtzu
Defenders of Zoran

[neiana]

I don't know, seems to me that there is a whole lot of alarmist Macarthian speculation going on here. We have no idea whats going to be released, no idea how drastic it will be. I know that coming from a place like SWG (as I did) you have every tendancy to be distrustful of the Devs, but I think we should all just give these guys a break and see what they can do. They are not SOE. Let's not chop off thier heads before they have a chance to use them. If they implement it on test and it doens't work, well, then we have something to discuss, but there is no need to get up in arms about it until then. We all want to see this game do well and we all enjoy it (that's why we're here, right?). They have never said what the nature of the changes will be other than being racially-motivated. Lets cut these guys a break and see what they can do.

Chuangtzu
Defenders of Zoran


I completely agree! I wish everyone else would relax and just see what happens ;)

- N

[korin77]

I like the elemental affinity idea. I think post release, they should not touch any of the core game elements like fighting, magic, harvest, crafting. I REPEAT! these should not be touched. Any racial affinities should be with new elements introduced with the game. The elemental affinity would be a great idea. Each race would have elements associated with them. They will make certain spells do more damage for that race, and make them do less damage with other spell types.

The new spells can then be introduced for each race type's affinity so that they all do relatively the same amount of damage. Next make the mobs in those different mainlands have the same vulnerabilities to those element types so no race suffers. In the common land areas that all races go after mainland, you can have mobs of different vulnerabilities so races can work together to overcome them. This would make it harder also for a foreign race to xp in a foreign land, since mobs may have a resistance to their element.

This to me would be a better way to implement differences in races and not make one race more attractive than another.

[neiana]

This would make it harder also for a foreign race to xp in a foreign land, since mobs may have a resistance to their element.



If this occurs, I will forever wonder why something in the desert is weak to fire and something in the lakelands is weak to water. ^_~

- N

[chuangpo]

If this occurs, I will forever wonder why something in the desert is weak to fire and something in the lakelands is weak to water. ^_~

- N
heh... Saga of Darwin ;)

[korin77]

Its true, but it could be that the abilities developed by the races would be opposite of their element. After all it could be a skill they learned to survive in their element. That example with the Trykers, they could develop fire spells to combat all the water type creatures in the game. Or maybe like superman, creatures are only really vulnerable from something in their enviornment. Another way could be that they don't have any innate resistances to their element but could have a high resistance to another. For example with the tryker land again. Those monsters are of the water element, maybe fire would not affect them as much. Lastly it could be the third option, since each race has two elements, one of the elements is the vulnerability of the monsters in their land... For example. Wind, water. Water would be resistant to fire but weak to wind.

[mosdef]

What's this got to do with anything? The linked information on MMOWorlds is rather aged, the deves moved to a classless system. I don't get this statement?

- N

races and classes are two different things. making a certain race better at somethings than other races does not make a class based game. there are still no definative clerics, paladins, monks, etc.

[ayne31]

If this occurs, I will forever wonder why something in the desert is weak to fire and something in the lakelands is weak to water. ^_~

- N
you have a point here ;)

[korin77]

Btw, scorpions roam the deserts alot, and they are very vulnerable to fire. A whale can drown in the ocean. Birds die often in strong winds. Earthworms often get killed in earthquakes. Get the picture?

[neiana]

races and classes are two different things. making a certain race better at somethings than other races does not make a class based game. there are still no definative clerics, paladins, monks, etc.

I was not referring specifically to this. If you had read the entire thread, you'd know that this comment is 100% in response to the idea of the original post that it will become class-based.


Btw, scorpions roam the deserts alot, and they are very vulnerable to fire. A whale can drown in the ocean. Birds die often in strong winds. Earthworms often get killed in earthquakes. Get the picture?

A whale will most surely die without water. This is what I am talking about, a whale would never have a weakness to it. Just like in the desert most things that get too much water will die - like a cactus, etc.

- N

[ayne31]

I Just like in the desert most things that get too much water will die - like a cactus, etc. You can call me cacti-killer btw :D

[lyrah68]

PLEASE do not make this into another EQ type racial game, where you have to spend MONTH to go to other races cities, or only ONE race is able to function as a warrior in the "end game" and ONE race is the ONLY healer choice, and MAYBE two races are the rogue/theif choice and two mage races, and everyone else is too GYMPED to worry about.

That is one thing I absolutely HATED about EQ, best monks BY FAR were the iksars, but you had ONE city, then eventually two or three that you could go to, the rest the guards would KILL you, forget about buying and selling there, or training skills.

And EVERY warrior was either a Barbarian or Ogre/Troll, and casters were pretty evenly split between darkelf, high elf and Erudite. I just got SICK of it being cookie cutter.

I don't mind a roll out of higher end spells or skills that you have to quest for, but as fame stands now, even doing EVERY mission you can for the first ten or 20 levels, your fame moves ONE or two points TOPS...Think about it, do you REALLY want to spend a MONTH grinding on fame/faction AGAIN??!! I don't and won't.

Personally if this turns into another faction/fame grind, I will "chicken" out and find the easiest road to take. I am not going to spend another two to six months wasting game time killing trivial mobs to appease an NPC. That is NOT my idea of fun.

[neiana]

Personally if this turns into another faction/fame grind, I will "chicken" out and find the easiest road to take. I am not going to spend another two to six months wasting game time killing trivial mobs to appease an NPC. That is NOT my idea of fun.

*laugh* Everyone is getting so uptight. I can't wait until it comes out and EVERYBODY that said ANYTHING will blush because they feel so stupid complaining about something that wasn't remotely close to what happens.

*shrug* Or we could all be right and the game will suck. The problem I see here is everyone is so blinded by what the REST of the MMO genre has done, that they can't think outside the confines of what EQ did. That's why a lot of people are hesitant about Ryzom in the first place - it's different.

I believe it will continue to be different. It will do things that you think to yourself "hm this is new.. I kinda like it." Quit responding to every comment as if this were Sony *egads!* or MS.

- N

[ayne31]

Quit responding to every comment as if this were Sony *egads!* or MS.
Sad but true is that designers/programmers vary BIG time but sales/marketing people are the same breed everywhere.

[takhion]

This is copied from the patch thread. Seems that thread is overflowing with commentary on channels. This thread is much more central to the topic so I believe it is more appropriate here.


You will start to see some divergence among the races abilities. (big hint here)



Well that worries me. There's no details on what this means,
Maybe I'm dense but I don't get the "hint".

In game people are talking about racial bonuses towards ranged weapons and magic and such. Someone is saying that Trykers will have advantages to ranged combat and Fryos will have advantages to melee combat. I don't know where they are getting this information. I sure don't see it on the boards. But this makes me worried.

For example, I'm planning on spending hundreds of skill points towards ranged and ammo crafting. If what fellow players are saying, that will leave me up a creek without a paddle because my community of buyers could potentiall dry up if Fryos have advantages to melee and not ranged after this patch. (this is just an example, but based on someone else's information in game, or their own pure conjecture)

I dont' want to spend hundreds of skill points towards ranged crafting only to see my community of buyers dry up because "Who wants a ranged weapon? We're better at melee!" Especially given that you can not trade those skill points in one they are spent. If we could change skill points out then I'd be more likely to accept changes to the system. But since we can't... changing the system would be like yanking the rug out from under the players would it not?

Can you (Nevrax) clarify what racial changes are being planned? Specifically am I in danger of facing a scenario that would make me want to restart again?

And to be clear, I have little interest in listening to all the speculation going on in this thread. None of you really know for certain what they mean by this "hint" do you? So I can't base any of my decisions on those speculations.