Kami Levels

[ajsuk]

I dunno about anyone else but the low Kami tolerance levels since the merger are starting to annoy me..
It's the same deal all over the place so I think we need some changes made.. what does everyone else think??

[andvice2]

sorry Jaice i think the Kami tolerance is fine as it is.
you may want to search for a foraging place not so overcrowded to let the Kami Tolerance fall down

[ajsuk]

sorry Jaice i think the Kami tolerance is fine as it is.
you may want to search for a foraging place not so overcrowded to let the Kami Tolerance fall down

Why you.. you.. rebel you!! who's side are you on :P

hehe

[kaetemi]

Get yourself a fighter team and forage outside the cities ;)

[gillest]

Big time agree with you and apologies to NA players ;)
Tuesday: 2 days after merger, I joke on region in Grove:
"omg NA players are killing the kami tolerance" :

Nita nodes in grove was at zero.
This week more spot in grove went to zero as well.

Before merger, the kami tolerance in grove rarely had more than 1/5 off....

Harvesting some fiber yesterday, I speak with a NA player at fiber spot and he does tell me exactly the same thing: as far as he knew he never saw low kami tolerance in grove......till merger...

So it seems all was fine on Windemeer and Arispostle apart some very busy spot like dyron and Knoll of Dissent but now seems to be a worldwide problem...
Double the amount of players (which is very good imo) and it becomes very very hard to get mats (sometimes impossible)...

Definitly agree with you that the Kami has to be a bit more tolerant ;) maybe the devs should give him more cookies :)

And the "move to another spot", "stop camping" answers are not good in that case as most of us harvest specific mats for specific needs: if nita nodes and shu fibers are the mats giving the best result for weapons, I a want to make weapons with mats giving lower results just becos of an angry Kami ;)

[predzz]

I agree with murasaki. they are fine and put there for a reason: to prevent everyone from digging on the same easy spots all the time.

You're probably referring to dyron or thesos.
Well, look around. Dunes of Exile and Savage Dunes are big places and there are many harvesting spots with decent kami tolerance.

Remember kami tolerance reflects number of materials harvested during a certain amount of time in one area and not in the whole region!

The Fyros are just spoiled tbh (unbalanced?) with their 2 cities in lvl 150-200 regions, not to mention the water for safety nearby.

[ajsuk]

Oh yes don't get me wrong either.. I'm not against the merger in any way.. Just so ya know :)

And I was talking about everywhere..
Also some new people maybe stuck in the same regions and not be able to dig elsewhere.

[predzz]

Oh yes don't get me wrong either.. I'm not against the merger in any way.. Just so ya know :)

And I was talking about everywhere..
Also some new people maybe stuck in the same regions and not be able to dig elsewhere.

Where is everywhere? here in Lagoons of Loria i've never seen Kami - T gone under 75%

[ajsuk]

Matis is suffering.

Bog and towerbridge mainly.. Also friends have moaned about other places they dig in.. can't remember many names I'm afraid..

I'm not so bothered about places they have always been high.. Just the places that have soared since merge.

[schroder]

I hate the Kami
Yep, I hate the Kami

I don’t trust anything that chortles and claps all the time. And those Fat black cats, pure Evil... EEEEEEEVVVVIIIIIIIILLLL!

Shtick aside, I think that perhaps a better way to handle the Kami tolerance would be to make it a personal tolerance for the nodes you harvest, instead of a group tolerance for the node that everyone harvests. For example, make the kami tolerance so that it is a personal bar that reflects the results of your own digging habits for a node, the other bars are related to what you do with that node and not what others have done (aside from depleted sources, where others could have harvested all the mats first).

Make, the Kami Tolerance where it is reduced faster than it is now, but only reduced for your personal mining, or over mining habits. Say, if you stay on the same 2-3 nodes for too long the kami show up quicker to lay the smack down, but some new guy fresh off the noobie island can come in behind you and harvest with his personal tolerance still good. This way, you don’t have those with the most free time, hampering the gaming experience for weekend harvesters, or those that can only harvest after work hours.

Personally, I don’t have a hard feeling either way, keep it the same, or change it to personal levels versus group node levels, either or. But the sources have become quite a bit more crowded since the merge, which makes it more difficult for those that can’t play most of the day, unlike me. A couple of guild mates and I have been looking for new sources to prospect and harvest, but the trick is finding someone willing to help you cut though the agro mobs while you scout, when they are only able to play a few minutes to an hour or so before RL calls them back.

[magick1]

What is the kami tolerance bar?

As you may (or may not know), the kami is against the damageing of Atys and that includes excessive harvesting.
To that end they will allow you to harvest an area for a certain amount of materials and/or damage*, before they will take no more.
The three things that affect kami tolerance are many harvesters in the same area, harmful extraction (gentle affect too, but far less) and gas/explotions of sources.

The kami tolerance is working as it should, so I really don't see a need to change it.

* (Spoiler ahead!) Yes, damage. Those who have the "absorb damage" stanza know that harvesting causes damage to the area.

[vutescu]

I will quote a player who allways defended the Developers the Support Staff and such: "I'm aware the merge can bring good things and bad things".

He was right. We have more people now, the game is much more "alive". More players means more customers for crafter, easy time when seaching for a team and so on. But more players means more materials harvested, certain hunting spots has become overcrowded, more bad behaviour in-game under the escuse of rolepay.
And Kami levels are 0 indeed because of amount of extraction done in that areas. I had certain hours when I could go in Dyron and Tessos and find the Kami bar at half. Now, after I tried a couple of times and find the bar way too short for my taste (less then 2 mm) I quit harvesting in those places and moved to FF.
I don't know what's the solution of this problem. A higher rate of Kami regeneration would help indeed, but would not solve the problem. More players will go to harvest there when they'll find out. A personal KT bar would be nice, but this would mess with the whole concept of the game (colective/team work on a living planet).

What I have in mind is really nasty.
Someone is harvesting with KT at 0. He receives messages with "you stole mats... etc" At each 3-rd message he should LOSE 1 point in personal fame with Kami. At each 10 points of personal fame lost, HIS GUILD should lose 1 point. And so on with global fame, with other races... So if ke keeps harvesting, soon he and his guild will be at war with all races in game because of negative fame. In this way would be a lot less players harvesting there.... and the ones who are still harvesting there would be darn wanting to do missions to recover the fame loss. :>
Soon outposts will come in game and fame would be something you don't aford to lose.
(just my 2... dappers)

[predzz]

What I have in mind is really nasty.
Someone is harvesting with KT at 0. He receives messages with "you stole mats... etc" At each 3-rd message he should LOSE 1 point in personal fame with Kami. At each 10 points of personal fame lost, HIS GUILD should lose 1 point. And so on with global fame, with other races... So if ke keeps harvesting, soon he and his guild will be at war with all races in game because of negative fame. In this way would be a lot less players harvesting there.... and the ones who are still harvesting there would be darn wanting to do missions to recover the fame loss. :>
Soon outposts will come in game and fame would be something you don't aford to lose.
(just my 2... dappers)

If you mean losing kami and not gaining karavan:
That would totally unbalance the fame table. Also it wouldn't be fair for players that are kami followers towards karavan followers.

If you mean losing kami and gaining karavan fame, to keep both + and - balanced, then that would be a great easy way to get karavan fame.

[madnak]

Heretic's hovel has almost no harvesters. There are many spots in bog that nobody ever goes to. The Knoll of Dissent, believe it or not, is more than just towerbridge way. GoC has plenty of grinding spots nobody ever goes to. Savage dunes and dunes of exile are both enormous.

TB, the spot by ecowarrior camp, the spot by Fearing Fen Farm, Dyron, Thesos. The reason tolerance is low in these areas is that these areas are overused. There are many other places to get your mats. At the moment I think we have enough kami tolerance to support this server 5 times over. But 90% of the deposits are never used, because nobody is willing to get out of their comfort zone. That isn't justification for changing the kami tolerance, if you ask me.

Another perspective - if the devs change the kami tolerance every time it gets low, what is the point of it? This is a game mechanic with a real purpose, it's designed to prevent players from all mining the same easy sources. And now, we are all mining the same sources. So the kami tolerance is doing its job well, it's time for us players to stop being so lazy.

[ozric]

I think its fine as is. A big part of the problem is the people pulling say q70 or q80 in a q200 zone, using harmful methods (Dyron and Thesos mainly). Just no need for them to be there at all.

[morgan73]

Ya know, the Kami tolerance level only does considerable drops when a source is blown, or prematurely destroyed. Kipee Mull in the Witherings is
busy, granted, not as busy as Thesos (which always had low tolerance), but a somewhat close comparison as theres always someone out there digging.

If you want the Kami happy, gee.. Careplan??? Strip mining is everyone's easy get it now I won't waste my time careplanning cuz I'll get more mats without it solution, and now.. People are seeing this as a result.

If *everyone* careplans for a week, avoids blows, gassers, and premature ending of thier sources, and the Kami is still pissed at everyone, then I'll eat my pick and appologize for being way off base. :p

[thewarcc]

Didn't we first all whine that the dapper is worth nothing.
Well this is solved now, Now that less materials can be harvested the dappers are worth far more now. The kami levels are okay now, don't have any problems with it.

[b00ster1]

I think its fine as is. A big part of the problem is the people pulling say q70 or q80 in a q200 zone, using harmful methods (Dyron and Thesos mainly). Just no need for them to be there at all.
Exactly.
But this is balance.. "Payment" for mats in easy accessible places (near town, tp..).
Same in Grove of Confusion. Kami tolerance bar seriously droped in areas near TP.
Is this problem?
Yes and no.
No - because this is "payment" for digging q250 (up to Excelent) 20-200m from TP.

Yes - because digging not only Experts +, but all lvls.

Many areas are almost always with "full" kamibar.
Because areas hardly accessible / far from TP / etc.
Much faster tp to Grove, than go to other areas where tp isnt working/dont exist.

IMO kami tolerance dont need any adjustments. If Excelent mats available right near guards and water - may be somethink, what balance digged mats quantity...
Just we played on semi empty server, and now, after merge, a little "shocked".

I suppose, this was devs idea from start, and kami tolerance work as it has been conceived.

Some ppl have problem with dropped kamibar, cuz playing after work/etc?
This is social problem, not game unbalance (i mean low lvl foragers digging in q2xx areas)

[predzz]

They may need to change the system so that ql 250 areas give only ql 150 or 200-250 mats. Lots of people just go straight to lvl 250 areas after reaching lvl 50 or 100 harvest or so.
Why waste time learning all the mats locations in a certain region if 50 lvls later you need to move on to a new region and leave behind all the effort you put in finding locations?
I had searched and put landmarks of most excellent mats in Liberty Lakes region on the map (but back then there was a low landmark limit so had to delete most of them again). Now i can't do anything at all with them.

An even better change however, would be to make it much easier to get mats in for example a lvl 100-150 area safely than a 200-250.
In some lands this is somewhat the case (like tryker, but the 150-200 areas are harder than 200-250 imho). In Tryker there are very little harvesters in Lagoons of Loria (200-250) partially because most lower lvl harvesters stick to Fount (100-150).

Fyros however, is rather messed up indeed. If it wasn't for Kami Tolerance, it would be easier to get mats in a ql 200 area than ql 50-150!


Well this is solved now, Now that less materials can be harvested the dappers are worth far more now.

Sorry but this just makes no sense at all... ?

More materials can be harvested after patch 1 than before.
I don't see what this has to do with dappers. Maybe you mean more people are buying materials from the vendors?

[ajsuk]

Ok thanks for the responce so far..
It's all interesting stuff :)

Just a few notes to anyone who thinks I'm aiding in the problem..

I myself only dig the Q lvl I need to.
I Dig in the places I can get to without dieing.
And I almost always use Gental Extracting on my sources and also do my best to stop them from dieing/blowing.
(If only everybody did huh..)

Now back to the point.. apparently from what I've heard.. The Kami lvl in most places was ok.. (emphasis on most) so really as I see it the only balances from this merge which need changing are the game controled ones.. Like the Kami Tol..

Everything else should be fairly well balanced. (ie)

There are more people crafting but theres also more people buying..
Theres more new people to recruit to guilds but theres also more guilds to choose from..

and so on..

[kostika]

Ozric already said this but no one seemed to listen.

A large part of the Kami Tolerance lvl problems in places like Dyron and Thesos is the fact low lvl foragers are foraging in a lvl 200 area. If people forage in places meant for their lvl then alot of this problem would go away.

I don't think this is to blame on the merger. We had this problem before. But now we have more people, so we need to poilice ourselves.

Show your fellow foragers the places in the q150 zones tht you lvled on. Show them those good spots. We need to spread ourselves out again. It can't be good to have the kami tolerance so low in places all the time.

[dakhound]

my opinion on this is that if the kami bar is down you find another place to dig, for those who have problems diggin in thesos and dyron (me being one of em) the simple solution is go somewhere else, whether it be FF or another spot you know TBH thesos and dyron are not the best diggin spots in the desert and there are rich fields of mats with full kami bars all over the place. Let people dig Q70 in dyron because the diggers over 150+ should by now know a few other spots that are not only better mats but also better kami tol.

I would show you mine but.............errrmm I dont want people ruining it ;)

[mmatto]

This threads shows that kamibar is working as intended :) Keep it as it is or remove whole kamibar, no use to rebalance it.

Is there similar sweet spots in lower lvl areas? I haven't seen such. Tutor's camp at Witherings come close but it is still several hundred meters away from city, lol.

[borguk]

IMHO it just stops ppl sitting in the same place and digging away all day.
The whole purpose of tolerance is to force players to go seek alternative mats and explore the world.

You cant all sit on that excellent fibre site and expect it to never dry up and also not expect the kami to react.

[borg9]

Go forth, Harvesters and Explore!

There is more than one harvest area. Exploring and the risks are what makes Harvesting fun and exciting. Sitting next to a guard pull mats is no fun more fun than playing Pong!

[kostika]

This threads shows that kamibar is working as intended :) Keep it as it is or remove whole kamibar, no use to rebalance it.

Is there similar sweet spots in lower lvl areas? I haven't seen such. Tutor's camp at Witherings come close but it is still several hundred meters away from city, lol.

I can show you lower lvl sweet spots in Fyros. Of's Oasis is sweet as they get. That ridge that runs up the west side has almost all the mats you'll need. Good stuff there.

I'm sure there are similiar sweet spots in other lands. I'm more than happy to show people in Fyros the spots I know.

btw...I think the Kami bar is fine as it is. It's working as intended otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. :D

[2reddy]

The servers mat spawn times should be fixed. Forget the Kami tolerance, I can't even begin to dig. All the spots i know, are depleted whenever I prospect. I begin to get frustrated. On a spot, where I gained 120+ lvl back in Windermeer, I can't get 1 xp.

[archerke]

my opinion on this is that if the kami bar is down you find another place to dig, for those who have problems diggin in thesos and dyron (me being one of em) the simple solution is go somewhere else, whether it be FF or another spot you know TBH thesos and dyron are not the best diggin spots in the desert and there are rich fields of mats with full kami bars all over the place. Let people dig Q70 in dyron because the diggers over 150+ should by now know a few other spots that are not only better mats but also better kami tol.

I would show you mine but.............errrmm I dont want people ruining it ;)

miep i get all the stuff i need for a good ql200 sword (exellent max dmg, 23 speed) in circle of 100m out of tp

why should i bother going alone in the big world getting killed each 5 min by aggro? try to get them exellent oath in thesos good luck :)

[dakhound]

miep i get all the stuff i need for a good ql200 sword (exellent max dmg, 23 speed) in circle of 100m out of tp

why should i bother going alone in the big world getting killed each 5 min by aggro? try to get them exellent oath in thesos good luck :)

As I see you diggin round thesos all the time (and you've ressed me a few times) I might spend a few mins showing you a really nice place for you to relocate ;)

its got no aggro within 50m, its not far from where you dig usually its also easy to reach and has generally more spots than thesos (inc a few autumn excellent spots like thesos). It may be of interest to you

[mmatto]

One problem that I noticed as a novice digger leaving safe spots inside Zora was that I had very poor prospecting and tracking stanzas. Finding even one new spot in Cities of Intuition was enormous job. Then you start to see more experienced harvesters going to higher lvl sweet spots and go there yourself and find harvester's heaven. No way forcing me out of there :)

[glipe]

I think the Kami Bar is working better now that it did before the merger! The Kami are meant to be really harsh to exploiters of the land. They don't care about homins, just about balance. And now that the land really is getting a taste of true exploitation, they're coming down hard on the harvesters! Seems about right, wouldn't you say?

Plenty more places to harvest, as many have noted.

[vutescu]

miep i get all the stuff i need for a good ql200 sword (exellent max dmg, 23 speed) in circle of 100m out of tp
why should i bother going alone in the big world getting killed each 5 min by aggro? try to get them exellent oath in thesos good luck

See what I meant when I wanted to find a way to FORCE the players to find new places? As long as they will lose fame because they harvest, the fame WILL become unbalanced, but just for them. As long they dont care about others, why others should care about them? A punitive method to make them to live the spot and find another, will do the trick imo.

[marct]

Heretic's hovel has almost no harvesters. There are many spots in bog that nobody ever goes to. The Knoll of Dissent, believe it or not, is more than just towerbridge way. GoC has plenty of grinding spots nobody ever goes to. Savage dunes and dunes of exile are both enormous.

TB, the spot by ecowarrior camp, the spot by Fearing Fen Farm, Dyron, Thesos. The reason tolerance is low in these areas is that these areas are overused. There are many other places to get your mats. At the moment I think we have enough kami tolerance to support this server 5 times over. But 90% of the deposits are never used, because nobody is willing to get out of their comfort zone. That isn't justification for changing the kami tolerance, if you ask me.

Another perspective - if the devs change the kami tolerance every time it gets low, what is the point of it? This is a game mechanic with a real purpose, it's designed to prevent players from all mining the same easy sources. And now, we are all mining the same sources. So the kami tolerance is doing its job well, it's time for us players to stop being so lazy.
/"AGREE EMPHATICALLY"
The game mechanic is finally proving it's salt!!! Seems some people may be forced to more difficult areas soon if not already. I say about time. I know hundreds of digging spots that no one ever uses. And that is just in Matis :) It is doing just fine.

I think if it forces people into roots, even better, then the PvP piece can play out a bit more.

P.S. Don't you dare touch that Kami Tolerance fixer bittn there devs or support staff. No need for a change here!!!

[marct]

PPS. If anyone would like a Noinossalg special, Kamikaze harvesting class, I would be willing to assist the dedicated.

For those not in the know, I often forage in spots where I am 30-40m from 3 different groups of aggro. :eek: :eek: :eek: And you thought foraging was mindless, this is high awareness at it's best!!! :D

[archerke]

As I see you diggin round thesos all the time (and you've ressed me a few times) I might spend a few mins showing you a really nice place for you to relocate ;)

its got no aggro within 50m, its not far from where you dig usually its also easy to reach and has generally more spots than thesos (inc a few autumn excellent spots like thesos). It may be of interest to you

pls feel free :)

[ajsuk]

Well what can I say to this except, if you say so..

But me thinks those who voted 'No' would sure enjoy a 'tour de mats' type thing.. Because without being psychic or spending alot of time researching It's no easy task.

damn RL getting in the way eh??
Then, come to think of it.. would I want to spend anymore time on digging than I already do?? Not exactly the most thrilling thing in the game is it.. and I was sure the point in gaming was to have fun :confused:

Anyway, hey Noino my friend. I would sure love you to take me to these places plz plz :P

[gillest]

If you want the Kami happy, gee.. Careplan???
If *everyone* careplans for a week, avoids blows, gassers, and premature ending of thier sources,:p

Is there any other way to harvest? ;)
up to my lil 220ish forest forage, the only occasion I blew was cos i was chatting to much :)

[rasmus]

The Kami Tolerance is just fine as it is now.. This is said many times before "the low level harvest should harvest in the regions that fit thier level, instead of ruining the harvesting for those who are higher level."

And for those who dont bother go finding less safe spots to harvest, go do something else. :p

[archerke]

The Kami Tolerance is just fine as it is now.. This is said many times before "the low level harvest should harvest in the regions that fit thier level, instead of ruining the harvesting for those who are higher level."

And for those who dont bother go finding less safe spots to harvest, go do something else. :p

ye if u got 5 orders running try to stay calm i just dig them at the easiest/closest spot i can find them kami bar 0 or not ;)

[uncus]

The Kami Tolerance is just fine as it is now.. This is said many times before "the low level harvest should harvest in the regions that fit thier level, instead of ruining the harvesting for those who are higher level."

And for those who dont bother go finding less safe spots to harvest, go do something else. :p

And what gives you or anyone else the right to tell anyone where they may harvest?

[caitiff]

damn RL getting in the way eh??

yup that happens to me to, but i still voted no. If it is too easy then its no good


Then, come to think of it.. would I want to spend anymore time on digging than I already do?? Not exactly the most thrilling thing in the game is it.. and I was sure the point in gaming was to have fun :confused:

Not everyone can be a true digger. This i guess will help seperate the true diggers from the not so true diggers :P Nah really though, before that bar meant nothing. Now it is at least moving. It is finally working how it should :)

[predzz]

See what I meant when I wanted to find a way to FORCE the players to find new places? As long as they will lose fame because they harvest, the fame WILL become unbalanced, but just for them. As long they dont care about others, why others should care about them? A punitive method to make them to live the spot and find another, will do the trick imo.

That's a bad way of thinking. A better one would be to reward the players that go out searching for other mat locations. (instead of punishing the ones that don't)

[lathan]

Plenty more places to harvest, as many have noted.

Uhuh, try that when you're lvl 200+ in forest forage and the kami has to be measured in millitolerance all over GoC...

[madnak]

Uhuh, try that when you're lvl 200+ in forest forage and the kami has to be measured in millitolerance all over GoC...

Not true. Go to Eastgrove gate, or Westgrove gate, or near the entrance to highgrove, or really anywhere not within 300m of the kami tp.

[vutescu]

That's a bad way of thinking. A better one would be to reward the players that go out searching for other mat locations. (instead of punishing the ones that don't)

There was an old joke that perfectly ilustrates my point. Even my english is bad, I'll do my best to translate it.

A poor man had 6 kids, a wife and a misere hut. They all were living in the hut, who has a single room. You can easly understand that the hut was overcrowded. The poor man goes to the priest looking for an advice:
- Those kids are driving me crazy! The are 6 are making a lot of noise, wife is arguing with me all the time. I need a larger house, father, please help me.
The priest is thinking a bit then he asks:
- Do you have a cow, poor man?
- Yes, I do.
- Good. This cow lives outside, in a stable, right?
- Yes
- Keep it in your house, then come back to see me in one week.
The man goes home and place the cow in the house. Hmm.... 6 kids, a wife AND a cow. After a week he goes to the priest again.
- Did you placed the cow in the house, poor man?
- I did, father.
- How is it?
- Worst, father. Is worst.
- Perfect. Now go home, place the cow in its stable and come to see me tomorow.
The man goes home, take the cow from house and place it in stable. Next day he goes to the priest:
- Did you placed the cow back in stable, poor man?
- I did, father.
- How is it now?
- Is PERFECT. Thank you father!

See what I mean? You can reward someone, but you obtain the same result threatening you can take what he already have. Are just 2 ways to see things.

[subnite]

The main problem with kami tolerance is that low lvl ppl harvest in areas where they aren't supposed to... If a lvl 50 harvester harvests in a 200 area the kami bar seem to go down faster than if a 150 harvester does, so what ppl really have to do is to harvest in an area suited to their lvl..