Spoiled Skill Babies

[jujumon]

I was reading through some of the posts regarding the upcoming patch and the racial abilities that are supposed to arrive. I noticed a number of people getting up in arms about the possibility of racially limited skills. In fact, I even heard such remarks as "this is another EQ clone".

Just out of curiosity.... are you insane?

Do you have any idea how much freedom we have in this game? How utterly unique and BIZZARRE it is, to be able to start a caster with the same character that is a high level fighter and do it by fighting NOOB mobs? Not only are we allowed to pick any skill we want to, we get to level them from start to finish, there IS no overshadowing "Level" to our characters that define what we will get experience from in all skills. It's COMPLETELY skill based.

So you say you want to keep your favorite class layout, and you are worried that you will suddenly have to change with the addition of new and powerful racial skill sets? Well let me suggest this: if you were an effective character BEFORE the racial skills I am *guessing* that you will get a racial skillset that is effective for you. If you are mad because there's no racial skill pack for a 'Tryker Care-Harvest Heavy-Armor Unarmed Mage', maybe not having the most efficient skills is kinda your cross to bear.

And you know what else? Nobody is going to take your skills away from you. We are all free to go merrily down are way into as much trouble as we like. And we're just as free to come back and learn some useful skills. Now I UNDERSTAND it is possible to break a character: you cannot learn all the abilities and stanzas even with everything mastered. But if you made it far enough for that to be an issue, it seems like you must have a reasonable character laid out, and I'm sure there will be some nice racial skills that will benefit you.

So chill out. This game is in no danger of being class-based, or "EQ-fied".

Jueiin

[neiana]

This should most definately have not been its own thread. -_-

- N

[jujumon]

This should most definately have not been its own thread. -_-

- N

My bad sweetie, I'll take it down for ya ;)

Jueiin

[ayne31]

So you say you want to keep your favorite class layout, and you are worried that you will suddenly have to change with the addition of new and powerful racial skill sets? Well let me suggest this: if you were an effective character BEFORE the racial skills I am *guessing* that you will get a racial skillset that is effective for you. If you are mad because there's no racial skill pack for a 'Tryker Care-Harvest Heavy-Armor Unarmed Mage', maybe not having the most efficient skills is kinda your cross to bear. Regarding my posts I never asked for a racial skillset. I like the low lvl game (means up to 50) as it is now. But there were some things that intrigued me from reading on various websites.

Remarks about the Fyros as a fire based fierce culture or the Tryker as an elusive, stealthy and free spirited seafolk hooked me up. I allready dreamt about playing something completely different for years - like some kind of Tryker underwater guerilla hunter ;) but then I discovered that there were no racial diversities and I was a bit disappointed. But then I realized the advantages of an even playfield and the freedom to choose whatever I wanted because I wouldn't be able to make any wrong decisions (wasting 100reds of skill points is enough imho).

My *problem* is just that if the Tryker are going to be an elusive stealthy underwater guerilla hunter in *game* terms within 6 weeks instead of background I will feel betrayed.

Not because I have to reroll ( I still have 3 slots left open) but because Nevrax have released the game to early under these circumstances. And dont think that any company (not only Nevrax) gives a damn what 10.000 preorder subcribers want if they know they can only get some other 50.000 buyers if they change a game dramatically. The desing team did an OUTSTANDING job but marketing folks usually are a different *race* - not only in the term of background stories.....

[jmaiers7]

You know what i like about the MMORPG genre? .... it's the fact that the game is always changing. Says so right on every box, "game content may be subject to change". So why is it when the Dev team does its job and changes game content, people always start flaming the game as being in BETA still? I dont get it. We pay a monthly fee to have stuff like this done. Racial abilities ... bring it. Will it gimp me ... dont care... played gimp before ... loved it. Nuthin like seeing a Half Ogre caster in DAoC. You know in end game racial abilities mean lil to nuthin anyway. So lets not flame the Devs until we actually know what they have in store as far as race... my guess. They arent gonna be lookin to lose customers. Will prolly add different jobs based on race for each skill. Just my two cents. I love this game so far and I am all for diversifying the races. Keep it up Nevrax

[ayne31]

How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?

[Heilsbringer]

I think the changes in race-related abilities will only surface as specializations in some skill-fields like magic. Maybe the Fyros will be able to conjure more devastating fire spells than the Matis wich are better in acid spells and such!
Or the electric Zorai swords are better handled by the Zorai and when a Tryker wields one, he uses much more stamina and so on.
I canīt think of Nevrax being so cold and lets us old BTīs need to make a complete new char, just to get those "50.000" on board. They just canīt do that. Put your pessimism away, ayne31.

The changes will be smooth and good for everyone. If not, hang me... :o

[neiana]

How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?


If the game were released that way, that would be *THE* awesome game.

Ever hear of Horizons? I don't mean the game as it is now, but the game that it was originally intended to be...

hot dang that game would have sliced and diced it's competition to THREADS. All while making dragons play without any contant with ANY other race for 6-9 MONTHS, Vampires only being able to be in towns during the night time etc etc etc.

The community was *HUGE*, and then they destroyed it. So, FYI, a properly put together game with those goals in mind would be _THE_ best MMO.

- N

[ayne31]

I think the changes in race-related abilities will only surface as specializations in some skill-fields like magic. Maybe the Fyros will be able to conjure more devastating fire spells than the Matis wich are better in acid spells and such!
Or the electric Zorai swords are better handled by the Zorai and when a Tryker wields one, he uses much more stamina and so on.
I canīt think of Nevrax being so cold and lets us old BTīs need to make a complete new char, just to get those "50.000" on board. They just canīt do that. Put your pessimism away, ayne31.

The changes will be smooth and good for everyone. If not, hang me... :o

These things you mentioned i can perfectly live with....so my prayers go to the Kami and Karavan that you'r right :)

[ayne31]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayne31
How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?

If the game were released that way, that would be *THE* awesome game.
NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*

[neiana]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayne31
How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?


NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*\

Guess you haven't a clue about the origial Horizons then. ^_~ Heck, an entire race living under water, not ever being able to leave or else they'd dry up. No other races could get to them really well if at all. You've no idea how huge it was.

- N

[ayne31]

Just to keep the quotes according to reality:


How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?


If the game were released that way, that would be *THE* awesome game.

NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*

Now my dear Neiana - please explain to me how your last post Guess you haven't a clue about the origial Horizons then. ^_~ Heck, an entire race living under water, not ever being able to leave or else they'd dry up. No other races could get to them really well if at all. You've no idea how huge it was.fits in with the 3 original quotes above. O_o

[jujumon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayne31
How about introducing a new race with new skills and new abilities each quarter? Maybe the PERFECT offensive mage race, the ONE healing folk, the ONLY stealth creatures, the TRUE prospecting culture - THAT would be fun, wouldnt it?


NO! it would have just been THE EQ-SF clone! *sigh*


Alright, since you're gonna bring EQ back into it. /flame on.

First of all, if you are going to ***** about EQ, it boggles my MIND that you would chose their racial system. It is restrictive, in a sense, because starting stats do indeed vary from race to race, and class choices are also limited by race. They took great care ( in this area anyway ) to make sure that race played some kind of role in your BEGINNING experience. It vastly changed your starting city and quests, what people you would interact with, how NPC's treated you, a minor ability or two, and some purely background aspects like Diety and history. And yes, there were indeed some consensuses about which race was the best suited to a given class.

And none of that meant SQUAT past even level 30. Unless you were playing on a particular ruleset server by your OWN CHOICE to make race matter more, it was negligable! "The PERFECT xxx-class"??? Did the fact that your barbarian warrior had 10 less STA than the troll warrior MATTER when shamans cast 100 STA buffs on you, or when clerics gave you 1500 hp marks? Starting stats were a joke: your equipment was the only thing that mattered. So what are you TALKING about? How is EQ bound forever by racial chains?

If you are going to take stabs at EQ, how about their terrible raid system, their monotonous item camping, their perpetual downtime between high level fights? How about their lack of player story contribution or their near worthless crafting system?

What it sounds ilke to ME ayne31, is that you played EQ till maybe 15, realized that your human wizard didn't have as much INT as an erudite, and assumed you never would. EQ has LOTS of problems, but these allegations of racial restriction are a drop in the ocean at best.

[ayne31]

I have no intention to tell everyone what I dont like about EQsince I am playing SoR for the differences it has over it. And one of the major differences I want to keep at all cost is that race doesnt matter BIG at creation.

You are right that on the long run it doesnt matter but EQ boards are overflowing with advice for which race you *have to* take to max out as a <insert class> and the newbs who think they are smart take this advice gladly and so we see the servers overflowing with 100ds of identical race/class combos each month.

And wise-assed forum seniors telling innocent newbs: "You made a human druid? better rereoll or you#ll come back whining every week *LOL*"

I dont need it anymore, I really dont.

[kierstad]

I have no intention to tell everyone what I dont like about EQsince I am playing SoR for the differences it has over it. And one of the major differences I want to keep at all cost is that race doesnt matter BIG at creation.

You are right that on the long run it doesnt matter but EQ boards are overflowing with advice for which race you *have to* take to max out as a <insert class> and the newbs who think they are smart take this advice gladly and so we see the servers overflowing with 100ds of identical race/class combos each month.

And wise-assed forum seniors telling innocent newbs: "You made a human druid? better rereoll or you#ll come back whining every week *LOL*"

I dont need it anymore, I really dont.Simply put EverQuit is nothing but a cult classic now. It had it's day, I think we should all just leave it be :) Move on to newer, better things like SoR.

Aside from being vastly different than EQ, the other thing I like about SoR so far is that the community isn't overflowed with arrogance and rude people...yet. I honestly hope it stays that way. I like having fun and helping people, but quite frankly, if it ever became another EQ/AC/AC2/SWG/DAoC/AO/WoW(which has got to be the WORST community ever) I'll be leaving.

[ayne31]

Aside from being vastly different than EQ, the other thing I like about SoR so far is that the community isn't overflowed with arrogance and rude people...yet. I honestly hope it stays that way. I like having fun and helping people, but quite frankly, if it ever became another EQ/AC/AC2/SWG/DAoC/AO/WoW(which has got to be the WORST community ever) I'll be leaving. The sad truth is that for every game comes the time when people feel they have "mastered" the game or even worse "won". Personally I have no idea how an MMORPG can be "won" but I have seen people actually writing these very words in SWG or EQ boards.

And once these people are getting bored they try start teaching everybody else how to play the game....this behaivior pattern is tied to human nature I am afraid and so becomes inevitable on the long run.

[jujumon]

The sad truth is that for every game comes the time when people feel they have "mastered" the game or even worse "won". Personally I have no idea how an MMORPG can be "won" but I have seen people actually writing these very words in SWG or EQ boards.


As far as I can make out, your issue is thus:

You don't want this game to add racial identitiy via unique skillsets, because this will prevent ANY character from concievably acquiring ANY skills he/she desires. You are worried that it will create "supreme class-race combinations", which you do not care for. What you DO want is to for races to continue drawing from the same, perfectly equal skill pool. In other words, to keep races as basically a set of textures for your avatar and nothing more.


You know what, that's valid. I can empathize with a bad taste in the mouth, having chosen my race poorly for my class in other games. It can makes things difficult at times. We obviously disagree, however, as to the value which is added from racial identity. I believe it adds to uniqueness, because it differentiates between a skillX/raceY and a skillX/raceZ. Perhaps uniqueness is more important to me than it is to you; hell I have chosen bad race/class combos INTENTIONALLY just so I wouldn't see 50 of myself a day. But I respect your opinion.

Here's where we diverge though.
1) EQ is NOT a game in which race/class combos reigned supreme. Maybe wankers do complain about it on the forum, I didn't read the forum I played the game(for 3 years). And every time I played and grouped with new people I would end up with different race combos: clearly it is not a big freaking deal.

2) What you don't want is cookiecutter builds running around everywhere right? I GUARANTEE you that a few racial bonuses to particular skills are the smallest factor in creating that kid of environement. a: never underestimate people's desire to be different b: its the underlying skill system that really matters. Honestly, I don't know what to expect of Ryzom, I haven't gotten high enough to get a feel for how the skill system will push me and pull me.

Jueiin

[ayne31]

What you don't want is cookiecutter builds running around everywhere right? I GUARANTEE you that a few racial bonuses to particular skills are the smallest factor in creating that kid of environement. a: never underestimate people's desire to be different b: its the underlying skill system that really matters. Honestly, I don't know what to expect of Ryzom, I haven't gotten high enough to get a feel for how the skill system will push me and pull me.

Jueiin
You are perfectly right. And looking at the simpliest of all solutions Nevrax has chosen for factions (+8/+8/-8/-8/-16 equally divided) I am VERY unsure if they come up with more then Fyros +10HP -10 Sap etc. Of course I know that we have been given just 1 bloody race so far with 4 diffeent sets of textures and nothing more and I am far from being satisfied with that. I have provided lots of ideas in another thread how racial diversity can be achieved without touching the basic equalness of all races BUT...

.... my MAIN issue is that I charge nevrax of having released the game to early for their own ecomical reasons in full knowledge that the game was unfinished yet and that there would be dramatic changes (I mean changes - NOT additions) within 2 months of release. And this is no issue of gameplay or personal taste. Why TF did Nevrax not wait? Did they play for time or need beta testers willing to pay for the privilege?

I'd wish nothing more than to be proven wrong and I rather have you all lauugh at me in 2 months than tell me "You knew it...."