[DEV] Rebalancing Changes, PvP/Combat/Stanzas, Sep 08

[lawrence]

Nevrax has just updated the Currently In Test (http://www.ryzom.com/?page=player_info-in_test) section of the website with a series of previously announced rebalancing changes (PvP/FvF-related), as well as new additions. We'd love to hear your feedback on them.

[ P v P ]
- When leaving a PvP zone and entering a new one, it could happen that you got the message: 'you are safe' when you were not.

- You cannot invite to your team players from opposite factions in a PvP faction area.

- Right now PvP damages are divided by 2 compared to PvE. The original purpose was to make PvP fights to last longer, especially since magicians were able to inflict too many damages. Since we would introduce magical damage absorption, while offensive casters would still have a slightly advantage regarding damage quantity, it would restore some balance here. Also, in PvP, armors above q160 aren't useful since they absorb more damage than a warrior will ever be able to inflict. We then removed this dividing factor.



[ C O M B A T ]
- Double missile stanza now has a new cost: the relative cost. In order to fine tune PvP and PvE, double missile add a 20% cost to all actions.

- Double affliction + direct damage cost when making the action has been increased of 20% overall.

- Recast timer for certain auras are now of 20 mins.

- Depending on the aura, there is a 10 minutes timer for you to be affected again when one wears off.

- Stanza for Area of Effect (bomb, spray, ricochet) have had their power doubled, this is for damages and heal also. Except the first stanza/brick of those 3 effects, which is a bit under factor 2.

- Armors should now absorb creatures' critical damages as intended by the gameplay. Absorption values have been fine tuned. A certain amount of melee damages you receive from creatures will now be absorbed by your armors. Of course, those will vary depending on light, medium, heavy armors and their stats.

The new absorption values are as follows:
For light armors, the absorption range changed from 5%-15% to 5%-25%;
For medium armors, the absorption range changed from 20%-30% to 20%-40%;
For heavy armors, the absorption range changed from 45%-55% to 40%-60%.

The 2 handed melee weapons (sword, axe, pike and mace) have now differentiated characteristics, and all of them have a value. Here, the 2 handed sword is the reference for damages and speed comparison:

axe & mace: 20% more damage, 10% slower;
pike: 20% less damage, 10% faster, 20 in reach (3 others weapons have 10) that allows to lower received damages by 10%;
sword: has a parry bonus that allows to lower received damages by 10% (comparing to axe and mace).

Depending on the used materials, the 4 weapons:
reduce one's dodge from -20 to 0;
increase target's dodge from +20 to 0;
reduce target's parry from 0 to +20.

So, the effectiveness of these weapons will depend on the mobs' defence mode: those who parry will be easier to kill, and those who dodge will be harder.

- The way resistance works on jewels has been undergoing some changes. You can notably see those in your persona window 'P'. The RESISTANCE category now has more tooltips and the category PROTECTION appeared, also filled with tooltips. They are both for jewels only.
- In a nutshell, resistance let you know if you will be hit by a spell or not; and protection indicates the reduction percentage of spell damage.

- Each jewel can have up to 3 resistances. Those resistances come from the raw materials which you use in order to craft your jewel.

- The new types of resistances (which replace the former ones) are as follows:
Desert resistance: includes fire, blind, madness;

Forest resistance: includes poison, sleep, snare (slow move);
Lake resistance: includes cold, shockwave, stun;
Jungle resistance: includes electricity, slow, root;
Prime Roots resistance: includes acid, rot, fear.


- You get a bonus with the resistance of your originating ecosystem.

- When crafting jewels, in the crafting windows, the greyed stats are not used (only the 3 best are chosen). Tooltips will detail it in the craft window, also providing examples of how it works for a better understanding and making the desired/appropriate jewel.

- Former jewels will have their resistance converted to the new system when needed.

- Moreover, jewels now have 3 classes: class 1, 2, 3. Their difference relies on their durability. You will need more raw materials to make a higher class one.


- The protection system (which is not the same thing as the resistance!) has also been reworked:

All homins share a common base protection;
Protection values specific for each civilization are added to the base values on specific magic types: 10% for generic damages, 20% for natural damages, 0% for all others;
The maximum protection percentage is 70%;
There is also maximum number of absorbed points, depending on the best skill of the character;
Generic magic damages are: Acid, Cold, Rot;
Civilization damages are: Fire (Fyros), Poison (Matis), Shockwave (Tryker), Electricity (Zorai);

- Special attacks from creatures are now absorbed by either armors for melee damages or jewels for magical damages - there is however some special attacks that are still unabsorbed, this is on purpose.


[ S T A N Z A ]
- Actions in your handbar could be stuck if you played a spell then a power.

- Some tuning was done on sap, stamina and HP heal:

HP heal is divided by 2;
STAM heal is 5 times higher;
SAP heal is 4.16 times higher.

[alexrowe]

Hate the new nerf for magic is this only in pvp mode?

[sidusar]

Hmm, that's quite a lot to comment on, so I'll keep it brief.

- You cannot invite to your team players from opposite factions in a PvP faction area.
We were previously told the whole world would be made faction PvP. Does this mean we will not be able to team with players from the opposing factions anywhere anymore? (If so this a very, very, very bad idea.)

Increased the cost of double missiles has been discussed to death already. I'm still in favor of it.

Sounds like the timer on auras has been made shorter? That's probably a good thing.

Area of Effect doubled is good, hopefully they'll be usefull now.

We don't need increased absorption values on armors. We need increased max vs values. The damage absorpted by armor is rarely determined by the absorption value.

More diversity amongst melee weapons is good, as long as it turns out to be reasonably balanced ofcourse.

The new jewel system sounds like a nice improvement, more complicated statistics, high quality jewels... should make things more rewarding for jewelcrafters. (Though I feel sorry for the jewelcrafters who had to grind their way up on basic quallity jewels)

New magic protections sounds good too, but I'm not sure how exactly jewels will raise magic protection?

I'm glad mob special attacks will be absorbed. Which special attacks will remain unabsorbed though? Kitin special attacks? Boss special attacks?

Wow, stam heal 5 times higher and sap heal 4.16 times? They'll be over 50% more powerfull than the current heal life then. Quite a lot more than originally planned, but I'm definitely not complaining :) Should compensate nicely for heal life being cut in half.

[grimjim]

All looks good to me. ATS people get testin' :)

[roninpvp]

How many times do we have to ask for higher MAX vs values for heavy armour. The protection factor is not the limiting factor.

[mrshad]

Isn't 'in test' the items that are planned for more or less immediate release?

This is a lengthy list to just sort of spring on us.

There is still no word about granting more credit bricks for melee, and similarly, no word about additional credits for magic, since the cost for spells is now higher.

Does it really matter, in the end?
The nerfs will happen no matter what we say.
PvP is going to take center stage, no matter what we want.
The changes that really need to happen (such as increased max absorbtion on armor) are paid no mind.
And EVERYONE knows this list is far from what will actually be in the patch, despite the oaths against stealth changes.

[rushin]

How many times do we have to ask for higher MAX vs values for heavy armour. The protection factor is not the limiting factor.
yep.

but as to the rest wow and grats! racial differences at last :D those of you lazy homins that havent applied for ats do so and we can make sure its all working nicely :)

[sidusar]

Does it really matter, in the end?
The nerfs will happen no matter what we say.
PvP is going to take center stage, no matter what we want.
The changes that really need to happen (such as increased max absorbtion on armor) are paid no mind.
That's a bit too pessimistic. It's true they don't listen to everything we say. Specially on matters like halving heal life where half of us doesn't want it and half of us does (bit hard for them to decide what 'we' want if we all want something else). But they don't simply discard all our comments either. Remember, their original plan was to cut heal life by 3, increase heal sap and heal stam by only 2, and increase the double missile casting time by 2 seconds. Because of our whining, this has been brought back to cutting heal life by 2, increasing heal sap and heal stam by 5, and no change to the double missile casting time.

[magick1]

All looks very interesting and quite promising.

Only one question:
The 2 handed melee weapons (sword, axe, pike and mace) have now differentiated characteristics, and all of them have a value. Here, the 2 handed sword is the reference for damages and speed comparison:
Shouldn't something similar apply to one handed melee weapons? (I am assumeing that they are now equal to each others as 2H weapons are.)

[micrix]

I m looking forward to the new animations :) Take care DEVs what you are doing to Trykers !!!!!

Is XP involved in the changes on jewelscrafting. Do class 3 jewels give more XP when crafting ?

I really would like to know how the +20% cost on magic works. Do you change our counterparts (range, time, HP and SAP) with +20% when patching, so that we can keep our spells as they are ? Just that they are using 20% more in relation to our healthbars ?

I am looking forward to the doubled bombs :) was always a fan of it.
The new stats on heal seem a little to rough to me. We will see what it will be when patched in ;)

The "not team with other faction" thing makes me nervous...

[ajsuk]

Jewels using more mats huh.. Does this mean we'll get more xp while crafting so we can level the darn things faster?

Also how are the bringing in the classes, is it going to be like the Stnd, MedQ, High Q system used for armor and such? :rolleyes:

[iphdrunk]

Jewels using more mats huh.. Does this mean we'll get more xp while crafting so we can level the darn things faster?

my guess is that you'll get the equivalent of the md q a nd high q plans yes.. and by getting more xp... well, as in all crafts, the xp is per mat. for a given level and overcraft etc. a fixed number of mats will give you in average the same xp, regardless of the crafted item. Thinking that the number of mats required e.g. to gain a level depends on the item is (not implying in your case) a common misconception. it takes the same number of mats to level pikes or earrings (in average). The huge difference is the number of clicks (so yes, pikes are faster because they require less clicks, specially if overcrafting, since you get a lot more of failed crafts)

[blaah]

I really would like to know how the +20% cost on magic works.
maybe it's like malus ?

double missile add a 20% cost to all actions

but then again, we'll see when it's patched in ;-)

[petej]

The 20% is the cost on the double cast stanza , whatever spells you use to create the double with get an extra 20% cost put on
ie:-

Celestial Double Missile: Cost 20%
Heal 14: Cost 160
Heal 11: Cost 100
Range 12: Credit 40
Sap 18: Credit 140
Life 18: Credit 140

Total: Cost 312 , Credit 320

Thats how my heal is set up on the ATS :)

[micrix]

The 20% is the cost on the double cast stanza , whatever spells you use to create the double with get an extra 20% cost put on
ie:-

Celestial Double Missile: Cost 20%
Heal 14: Cost 160
Heal 11: Cost 100
Range 12: Credit 40
Sap 18: Credit 140
Life 18: Credit 140

Total: Cost 312 , Credit 320
If you are right i leave after patch the forum for a week. ;)

[ajsuk]

my guess is that you'll get the equivalent of the md q a nd high q plans yes.. and by getting more xp... well, as in all crafts, the xp is per mat. for a given level and overcraft etc. a fixed number of mats will give you in average the same xp, regardless of the crafted item. Thinking that the number of mats required e.g. to gain a level depends on the item is (not implying in your case) a common misconception. it takes the same number of mats to level pikes or earrings (in average). The huge difference is the number of clicks (so yes, pikes are faster because they require less clicks, specially if overcrafting, since you get a lot more of failed crafts)

Yes this would have been my guess too, just expressing my concern if this isn't to be the case.
Thank you. :)

I really do wish they'd sort the click click clicking out though. Earrings are really starting to do my nut. :p
They need a 'grind mode' button you can switch on which keeps auto crafting until you run outta mats lol. Maybe after a while I'll be able to sue for RSI tho. ;)

[petej]

yep.

but as to the rest wow and grats! racial differences at last :D those of you lazy homins that havent applied for ats do so and we can make sure its all working nicely :)

Hmmm not sure how youl like the look of your sex girl when she runs , Zorai run like Gibbai , Tryker like Cutes without the hoping and Fyros like emm the six million dollar man lol , no real change for Matis except the sit anime. come on the ATS in your best Ann Summers gear n see how ya like it :)

[rushin]

Hmmm not sure how youl like the look of your sex girl when she runs , Zorai run like Gibbai , Tryker like Cutes without the hoping and Fyros like emm the six million dollar man lol , no real change for Matis except the sit anime. come on the ATS in your best Ann Summers gear n see how ya like it :)
right coming to the ats now for a look b4 bed...

[edit] hehe interesting! luckily my ats char isnt nearly as cute as rushin so it wasnt too heartbreaking :)

[kuroari]

- Each jewel can have up to 3 resistances. Those resistances come from the raw materials which you use in order to craft your jewel.

- The new types of resistances (which replace the former ones) are as follows:
Desert resistance: includes fire, blind, madness;

Forest resistance: includes poison, sleep, snare (slow move);
Lake resistance: includes cold, shockwave, stun;
Jungle resistance: includes electricity, slow, root;
Prime Roots resistance: includes acid, rot, fear.



ok um.. so in other words a crafter of desert jewels can only make desert/pr resistances and now buyers need to find crafters of all the different races mats for all the resistances?
Maybe i got this wrong bieng a relative noobie myself.. but doesnt seem right

-Nightblade

[micrix]

right coming to the ats now for a look b4 bed...

[edit] hehe interesting! luckily my ats char isnt nearly as cute as rushin so it wasnt too heartbreaking :)
!! PANIC !! Dont make jokes on that. Nerf all i have but dont make my toon a caricature.

[thosholm]

<begins dragging ambers and seeds to his appartment>

I think I can stuff another thousand seeds into that cupboard, the door is not bulging that much yet. And the shower cubicle is not quite full of ambers yet. Sxarlet will just have to get used to me washing in the Guild Hall.

[buupi]

[ S T A N Z A ]
- Actions in your handbar could be stuck if you played a spell then a power.

- Some tuning was done on sap, stamina and HP heal:

HP heal is divided by 2;
STAM heal is 5 times higher;
SAP heal is 4.16 times higher.

Does this mean that:
Now i heal 970 sap/stam with single missile
Now i heal around 2700 hp with single missile

After:
I heal 4-5*970=4000+ sap/stam
I heal 1350 hp

Hey, what's wrong with the picture. Do enyone know mobs that hit 3000 stam drains instead of hp one?

Is allso resurection taken notice with heal mods?
4500hp fighter rezz and full healing takes about 6750 hp to heal (if i remember right half of hp to bring alive+max hp)= about 5 singe heals for me after change.

Astovidatu

[thebax]

Pretty much everybody on these forums knows I'm against the heal nerf, and I've explained why ad nauseum, so no point in reitterating why I think it's a terrible idea.

1) Percent absorption bonus is a step in the right direction, although leaving the average the same for HA is a non-change, but, please, as percent absorption makes very little difference, INCREASE THE MAXIMUM ABSORPTION VALUES!!!

2) Skill point costs for new grades of jewelry. As it stands, jewelry plans cost the same as medium quality plans.
Does that mean we already have the medium quality plans and now have the option of buying the standard and high quality plans? If so, what will be the composition for standard-grade earings? A single seed, no gem?
If the plans we currently have are the standard ones;
A) Will the skill point cost for these plans be reduced to 30 points, comeasurant with the other types of craft? If so, will current jewlers recieve a refund of spent points? Or will the only proffesion which cannot spare ANY skill points at all get screwed?
B) Or, will the skill point cost for each plan of increasing grade (standard, medium, and high) be 40 points, so that, if you purchase all of them, you will have the same point outlay as the other paths of crafting?

OOC:

[kwhopper]

I didn't notice anything in the weapons section about CC (Daggers more spcifically). Are they being left as is under the impression that they are fine? Now I know that particular part was about 2h weapons, but Daggers are seriously lacking in the 'useful' department. Low damage/High aggro/insane stam/HP usage cripple these weapons in PvE and PvP. Are there any plans to look at this?

About the changes in general they look good. The armor change is a bit disappointing as Heavy Armor receives little to no buff in the toughness area. As many others have said, this looks like it needs more reworking.

As for the comment above about healing. Resurrection should take a long time. It shouldn't be instant AND have a significant positive HP gain to boot, that's kind of silly.

[sidusar]

ok um.. so in other words a crafter of desert jewels can only make desert/pr resistances and now buyers need to find crafters of all the different races mats for all the resistances?
Maybe i got this wrong bieng a relative noobie myself.. but doesnt seem right

This is already the case. As it is now, only desert jewels can give fire resistance, only forest jewels can give poison resistance, only lake jewels can give shockwave resistance and only jungle jewels can give electric resistance. Only prime root materials can give fear resistance and there are currently no jewels that give resistance to any of the other afflictions (root, stun, sleep, blind etc etc).

They're simply expanding the system to include resistances for all the afflictions.

[thebax]

This is already the case. As it is now, only desert jewels can give fire resistance, only forest jewels can give poison resistance, only lake jewels can give shockwave resistance and only jungle jewels can give electric resistance. Only prime root materials can give fear resistance and there are currently no jewels that give resistance to any of the other afflictions (root, stun, sleep, blind etc etc).

They're simply expanding the system to include resistances for all the afflictions.

There is at least one gem for each resistance. Some, however, must be quartered, like Yelk mushrooms for stun.

OOC:

[sprite]

I m looking forward to the new animations :) Take care DEVs what you are doing to Trykers !!!!!
Lol, if they follow our (EE ats testers) then all the racial anims will be changed; we're "less than enthusiastic" :o

And @ Itachi, the spell balancing is universal; its shown in the "new action" window when you make the spell.

[akicks]

This is already the case.

This is not the case :)

It's confusing how they've worded it, but it works differently.

You have 5 different zones that have 3 spells in them. For example, the jewls I made on the ats last night where matis jewls. But, they had Jungle Resist, Shock Resist, Poisen, and something else too.

So, some mats will increase one zone's resistence, while other's will increase the others.

[cygnus]

All sounds good to me :) Stockpiling craft sp and mats for new jewel plans w000000t

[sprite]

All sounds good to me :) Stockpiling craft sp and mats for new jewel plans w000000t
There are no new jewel plans. All jewels now need more mats to make tho (for example, earrings need 2 seed, 2 amber) and the resists & protects are differently done.

[petej]

- Moreover, jewel now have 3 qualities: quality 1, 2, 3. Their difference relies on their stats and the higher the quality, the more raw materials you will need to craft those.

...so whats that mean then ?

[ajsuk]

...so whats that mean then ?

lol, I hear ya! :p

I do wish folk would speak English..

[sprite]

*Shrugs* They can't translate? :p

[thebax]

lol, I hear ya! :p

I do wish folk would speak English..


Yar! Nuttin bodders me moren when folks speaks sos ya canna unnerstan 'em!

[ajsuk]

Yar! Nuttin bodders me moren when folks speaks sos ya canna unnerstan 'em!

Like you Bax :D

*hugs really* :p

[roninpvp]

Ok i'm confused; went on ATS and did not see this quality 1,2, or 3 thing. The option to craft jewlry just gave me one choice of each type tho the precraft window had changed dramaticially as well as the resistance seems to be more complicated now.

[buupi]

As for the comment above about healing. Resurrection should take a long time. It shouldn't be instant AND have a significant positive HP gain to boot, that's kind of silly.

Aye it's silly, but with new changes+20% more to spell credits healers run outta juice in 10 sec or have to use heavy time credits to use max lvl double missiles. If ye use singles, it means 4-5 casts after change.

Another aspect for healing is that, new ones were able to team with much higher lvl folk. This made good practice on hunting skills for less experienced ones and took together old and new ones on common hunt. This was one good way to build community. Ability to heal on more "heavy" teams has been allso good way to guilds to make every member of guild important. Patch might now rule out new ones and separate them to near lvl teams.
After change i fear this is not anymore reasonable to do, because lover lvl healer cant help too much.
I know this change is aimed for PvP purpose. Now fights take long time, because healers get dropped ones up too quick.
What i think, this effects drastically allso to PvM fights, witch is not good :(
I dun like moan, and i try not to do so here. Let's see how it goes after patch.

Astovidatu

[sprite]

Ok i'm confused; went on ATS and did not see this quality 1,2, or 3 thing. The option to craft jewlry just gave me one choice of each type tho the precraft window had changed dramaticially as well as the resistance seems to be more complicated now.
There are none, as has been reported on the ATS feedback thread. Why not pop over and leave your comments there? :)

[kwhopper]

"Another aspect for healing is that, new ones were able to team with much higher lvl folk. This made good practice on hunting skills for less experienced ones and took together old and new ones on common hunt. This was one good way to build community."

It's a good way to powerlevel people into the 100s and beyond in a ridiculously short period of time. At least with melee and offensive magic you have to fight something you can actually have a chance of hitting. Healing is so easy to level, and rarely has anything to do with community building. Go with a high level team, hit the "1" key repeatedly and watch the xp fly in.

[110676]

i dont know if theese changes will change my prediction of "the mage vs mage patch" cause really guys when we all get to kill eachother who will be carrying a gun or even a sword to battle (as is) i had a brief chat with an old friend in game. he made lvl 193 rifle skill (hes odd that way) he claims his top dam pr hit is 344 hp. i didnt have the time to check with him but i belive thats with all powers used..... 344 for all that preparation ?? ....but he can run while shooting LOL. so when he and i meet up in 5 on 5 battle his mates will (lacking his aid) drop and well all gather round him and laugh at the chap with the funny stick.

[mmatto]

i dont know if theese changes will change my prediction of "the mage vs mage patch" cause really guys when we all get to kill eachother who will be carrying a gun or even a sword to battle (as is) i had a brief chat with an old friend in game. he made lvl 193 rifle skill (hes odd that way) he claims his top dam pr hit is 344 hp. i didnt have the time to check with him but i belive thats with all powers used..... 344 for all that preparation ?? ....but he can run while shooting LOL. so when he and i meet up in 5 on 5 battle his mates will (lacking his aid) drop and well all gather round him and laugh at the chap with the funny stick.

Actually, I believe that these changes help quite a lot riflemans out there. You have to remember that rifle can shoot much faster than spells and thus interrupting mage/healer spells or forcing them to use concentrate. Big nuke damage is heavily affected by new resistances and protections to magic, absorbing upto 70% of damage.

On the other hand, reduced hp healing means that opponent can be killed with something else than biggest nuke burst damage even if opponent team has a healer. Improved stam healing means that your healer can heal your stam fast and you can actually use your fire rate stanzas.

In 1v1 PvP rifleman should rule if fight starts at range. Melee can't get close to rifle user as they are both as fast and rifleman can shoot while moving. Nuker spell will be interrupted when rifle user moves out of spell maximum range. New spell absoprtions will allow rifle user to have few mistakes in interrupting incoming spells. Also, note that mage uses his hp to cast bigger nukes and that makes him more vulnerable to rifle (or melee) damage.

In group PvP rifleman can finish off low hp opponents and take off casters. Launchers are not too viable because of mat cots and weight of ammo but reduced healing might allow using launchers as expensive way of winning group battle.

I believe that usability of ranged is finally getting there, close at least.

Fun factor (preparation time, lack of special moves, full bag) and group pve (sustained dps) usability needs improvements.

[micrix]

Launchers are not too viable because of mat cots and weight of ammo but reduced healing might allow using launchers as expensive way of winning group battle.

What if you are defender of an outpost and you have two loaded meks in the stable ?
That would make them possibly interessting in defence.

[sprite]

What if you are defender of an outpost and you have two loaded meks in the stable ?
That would make them possibly interessting in defence.
That's assuming you have stables there :p

[alyssah]

What if you are defender of an outpost and you have two loaded meks in the stable ?
That would make them possibly interessting in defence.
I've been hoping that nobody would post about the defence capabilities of launchers.

This is going to be the only real use of launchers (I have 2 with range of over 55m) and could provide quite a surprise if a guild were hovering just over 50m away. One launcher at Q130 can cause 900+ damage to main target & reducing damage to all within range. Three launchers aimed to the left, right and centre could inflict quite a bit of damage to a group before they moved out of range.

They would also prevent healers coming within range to rez any melee fighters that had attacked the outpost unsuccessfully. Autolanchers, with a range of well over 40m, could also be effective against onrushing melee before switching to your rusty sword. However, it can take years before you level sufficient for these to be of use.

[zerotacg]

after the heal changes your able do heal about 500HP with lvl 151
600 and a bit sap and arround 700 Stam without amplifier. isn't that kind of unfair? why are ya able to heal a melees stamina better then the rest?

[zerotacg]

. [New] If you and your target are both flagged as Faction PvP, the target window shows the level of your target (based on his highest skill),

>_> that's gonna increase the killin of harvesters because they are easy targets and their are many at lvl 250

another thing it's easy to kill one so with an entchantment you could easily sneak in range and kil atleast 2 or 3 and if the one's gettin killed he'll be easyly healed and starts again and won't even get DP or something but the harvester got to wait for focus regenerating

[xenofur]

i have to agree about the display, the one feature that was really enchanting about ryzom was that the ways to determine the powers of another homin were the same as in real live:
1. asking them
2. looking at their titles
3. watching what they do
the important thing is that all three of these were very unreliable and guidelines at best, thus every homin was an unkown variable, making decisions about wether to approach a bit more thought through. with a display for the levle it's: *click* *run away*/*attack*

in short, you're dumbing the game down.

[zerotacg]

the text is not really sayin if you would get as much point killin a lvl 250 harvester as for a lvl 250 melee or mage (or what ever the lvl is), but it kind fo gives me the feeling that the points will be equal, so to say you get the same points for defeating a homin which can't really defend itself or at least has a GREAT disadvantage as for on that could actualy kill you with a chance of 50% or so.
well would like to know if you thought about that
sure I'm one of the anti-PvP guys and I'm a harvester, seein me already dead in the sawdust XD
well it shouldn't be the point of PvP killen the weak but get a chellange and doing a real "fight" were the opponent is at least as strong as you

[larwood]

I am posting this in hopes that Xavier will read it, or someone who can talk to the dev's.

Last night, a full team with most having a 250 combat skill decided to try the new and "reballanced" Aen.

To make a long and tedious story short, she is much more than a challange... she is basically impossible without a team of 200+ lvl 250 players.

Here is my reasoning.

When you get within 20 meters of Aen (taunt range) her supporters spawn. There are about 10 groups of 6 (60) that remain in place, and use magic and ranged attacks. Another 4 to 5 groups of 6 (25-30) supporters that will follow the taunter until' he/she tastes the sweet desert sand.

Now, each one of these supporters is the stregnth of a Named Boss (1 black star on red). Which means, any one of them would take the attention of at least 2 players or equal or greater strength (at a minimum). So, at a minimum it will take 180 players to kill all of Aen's supporters. The fact that getting 180 players to log onto Aripostle at the same time is staggereing... so count that idea out. And even if you got 100 or so players, which might have a chance... how will you distribute the loot?

So killing her minyons is out of the question, which leaves us with the option to taunt her away from them, and bring her to a place, where a team can beat her to death (like it used to be).

It used to be, you could taunt aen, hit invuln... and start pulling her. When invuln goes away, you die. At this point, Aen and her supporters leave combat and start marching back to the camp... but you send in another taunter, using speed increase to catch up to her, then that person taunts, hits invuln... and completes the 2nd stage pull. With this second taunt Aen comes, but her guards continue back to camp... so you could take advantage of her and get her armor.

I understand that this was too easy, and exploitable in the past... i'll get to that.

Now, the problem with trying the 2-stage taunt... is that Aen will not go more than 50 meters from her camp. She leaves combat at 50 meters, whether the taunter is dead or not. Her supporters have a 100 meter aggro range, so fighting her 50 meters from camp is a hopeless cause.

We tried having a taunter at the 50 meter mark, to taunt Aen when she leaves combat... but she will not be taunted till she returns to camp again.. all the while her supporters are blasting the tarnation out of you.

We tried using multipe initial taunters, some to pull her guards, while the other pulls Aen... but the 50 meter issue is what makes it impossible.


So here is my suggestion about Aen.

Because her armor is so desired and valueable, it needs to be a challenge to get it. But not impossible.

It needs to be able to get for a single team, this is to avoid the problems that would arise with trying to choose who will get the armor when many players participate.

She needs to either be able to pull away from guards.. or

Have fewer guards, to make it possible to kill them with a single team... or

Be a lot stronger, more damage in her attacks, and fight alone.

The team that initiates combat will get the armor (to avoid kill-stealing).

Her spawn is not in the same place.. its all over the lvl 200 regions of Fyros.

You have a timer once combat is initated... and after that timer is up she 'poofs'.


These are some ideas... but something needs to be changed. Her armor is too valuable to be unattainable. Why have her if nobody can usefully kill her?

Or will the same thing happen to her that happened with Pei and Sergio? Just take away altogether.

Thanks, please take this into consideration. I think its an important issue.