[DEV] The Fame System – Second Edition

[lawrence]

Nevrax has just published an article regarding the second edition of the fame system:


The Fame System – Second Edition, by Xavier Antoviaque
The Chapter III, to be released next month, will include three parts: the Outposts (see also the Outposts rewards document and the related Q&A), the Spires Battles and, last but not least, the Second Edition of the Fame System – which we'll discuss today.

This upgrade, first introduced by the PvP Strike Team in its letter, is focused on integrating to the gameplay the increasing tension between the different factions – the Kamis, the Karavan and the homin nations. You'll see in this document that factions will be progressively less permissive and will be more careful when it comes to deciding who their friends and enemies are.


Link to the full article: http://www.ryzom.com/?page=news&id=1489

[ajsuk]

*dances* :D :D :D

[aylwyne]

Hmm, not a big fan of this line:

Neutrals can't attack during a nation or cult PvP event, but can be attacked and then counter-attack.

It seems like most one-on-one battles (at least for mages) go to he who fires first. Granted, in a team environment, this can be somewhat mitigated with healers, however, the team firing first definitely has an advantage.

[xenofur]

Hmm, not a big fan of this line:

Neutrals can't attack during a nation or cult PvP event, but can be attacked and then counter-attack.

It seems like most one-on-one battles (at least for mages) go to he who fires first. Granted, in a team environment, this can be somewhat mitigated with healers, however, the team firing first definitely has an advantage.the only other option would be to prohibit every interaction, that is make them completely inattackable and not able to heal anyone, which, on the hand, would make them premium spies ...

[rushin]

small question, if the guard's in cities are kill on sight to a player is that going to mean no more visits to the trainers, or will there be 'ways' to continue to train... would be great to have black market trainers maybe who wander around Atys helping out for a price ;=)

[aylwyne]

the only other option would be to prohibit every interaction, that is make them completely inattackable and not able to heal anyone, which, on the hand, would make them premium spies ...

I wouldn't say that's the only other option. One obvious option would be to make them attackable by everyone and able to heal everyone.

Honestly, I think that should be true for everyone. Sure, make it so space bar targeting uses the factions to determine friend/foe but why not allow any character to heal or attack any other character?

Edit: I meant that to say "attackable and healable by everyone and able to heal and attack everyone.

[lathan]

I have a question which hasn't been answered by this release about the new fame system.

What will happen to players who have positive fame with both kami and karavan after the patch? Assuming they also choose neutral that is.

[geezas]

According to the table it is not possible for a matis/tryker to become a fyros/zorai citizen or am I reading it wrong?

eg. max fame a matis can have with the zorai is 25%, the cap but 30% is needed to beging the citizenship.

Edit: ah yes you can, become neutral first :p

[grimjim]

the only other option would be to prohibit every interaction, that is make them completely inattackable and not able to heal anyone, which, on the hand, would make them premium spies ...

Less than ideal but a step in the right direction. Precludes merc activity in most cases and continues the trend of making peaceful player's lives more difficult :(

[ajsuk]

Honestly, I think that should be true for everyone. Sure, make it so space bar targeting uses the factions to determine friend/foe but why not allow any character to heal or attack any other character?

Whoa, I hear ya.. If I had a pound for every time I've said that.. :rolleyes:

[zhidao]

Just 1 annoying thing is in this document atm at least for me as Zorai beeing member of a kami guild.

"A citizen can only go in a guild of his/her nation" should mean that I now or than have to leave this wonderful homins of my current guild, just because I am not Fyros citizen or neutral. I am not so amused about that as I want to/will be Zorai citizen.

I know what the goal is there and I support it nevertheless, but it`s not the best thing. Is doublecitizenship possible to integrate somehow for guilds and Homins ? (okok I dream around :P )

[rushin]

Just 1 annoying thing is in this document atm at least for me as Zorai beeing member of a kami guild.

"A citizen can only go in a guild of his/her nation" should mean that I now or than have to leave this wonderful homins of my current guild, just because I am not Fyros citizen or neutral. I am not so amused about that as I want to/will be Zorai citizen.

I know what the goal is there and I support it nevertheless, but it`s not the best thing. Is doublecitizenship possible to integrate somehow for guilds and Homins ? (okok I dream around :P )
*coughs*
Zorai are *the* kami race, Fyros tag along 'cause they still feel guilty about the whole kitin destroying civilisation thing a few years back ;)

[xenofur]

optimum solutionwell, i agree, but are you sure you want to run THAT by grimjim? ;)

[grimjim]

well, i agree, but are you sure you want to run THAT by grimjim? ;)

I'd always rather you had a choice of action than a restricted set of actions.
Attacking/Healing at will (and being attacked/healed at will) provides the maximum choice for the individual and is, therefore, a bit better. Even if it exposes you to problem people attacks.

I am, on review, more concerned that this will break up guilds and that people who are non-militant members of either cult, or non nationalistic citizens, may not be able to join ostensibly neutral guilds. It looks like another big mess on second reading, forcing people into pigeonholes.

*puts sandwichboard with 'Doom!' written on it back on again*

[mrshad]

I am not sure I grok in fulness....

At anytime, any player or guild can return to neutral?

Doesn't that sort of take away the consequence of your actions?

"Hi, I am a typical Zoria. I have spent my life killing peaceful Karavan supporters in order to fuel the bloodlust Ma-Duk has inspired in me. I have eaten Matis children, and I have a collection of Tryker to carry my things because mektoub are too expensive.

But, now that the Karavan supporters hold territory that I want to get to, I would like to renounce my previous acitons and return to a level of civil interacttion with the same people I have mercilessly slaughtered.

Thanks!"

And, what benifit is there to having high fame for one faction or another?
Sounds like if all we get is a negligable price discount, we would be better off being neutral.

[oldmess]

And, what benefit is there to having high fame for one faction or another?
Sounds like if all we get is a negligable price discount, we would be better off being neutral.

Well, there is this little item:

Neutrals can't attack during a nation or cult PvP event, but can be attacked and then counter-attack. However, during a Kami-Karavan PvP event a neutral character is temporarily affiliated to a cult if he is a member of a non neutral guild - he will automatically take the guild's cult status for the duration of the conflict.

Also, there are the caps on fame. Neutrals can't go above 50 it looks like. I don't know if some future reward or benefit will only go to those with fame greater than 50.

There's a lot to digest here before deciding which way a guild should go. Especially if your guild has members from different races.

[bendunk]

One thing that intrigues me.... when did the zorai and tryker become anti one another?

I would have thought that the Zorai people would be more anti the Matis than the Tryker. (Stated starting fame -20% Tryker, -10 % Matis)

[aylwyne]

At anytime, any player or guild can return to neutral?

Doesn't that sort of take away the consequence of your actions?



The ability to repent and change your ways is not a bad thing as long as they don't make it trivially simple to swtich back and forth. You certainly don't want the ability for players to swap back and forth for each event but the overall ability to move from one side to the other is important, I think.

[d29565]

I am very happy with the way this new Fame System is arranged. Granted, I think that it could use a little more work-the neutral mostly. But all in all, I like the idea behind it. This Fame System could possibly save a few subs. I know that I will be sticking around to learn more about it. Thank you Nevrax for the idea.

[marct]

Seems like the switch is pretty cumbersome. besides being +30one way at some point to become affiliated, and having to swing all the way to +30 the other way beofre you are able to undertake Rituals to become assimialted seems good.

Beyond that, I would think(Or at least HOPE) the Rituals that are reguired are not a 1 day or 1 hour thing. Being able to change your alignment in 1 RL day would be poor at best.

I also think some memory should be had to how many times you have jumped around, thus requiring you to work even harder to switch back next time. Maybe, if there is an extended time between your switching, you do not get this penalty, Say you can switch every 6 RL months without increase in penalty beyond the above noted. the more frequently or the number of times you have switched, the harder it should be.

Noin. (Still chewing on this.)

P.S. Seems a guild does not need to be civilization affiliated if they put their GH in a non-capitol? How will this be handled for guilds with an established GH. Can they choose to move it to a capitol, or out of a capitol?

Is this opening the door for multiple guild halls in multiple lands for the neutrals? Or everyone?

[alyssah]

From early on in the game, I made it a deliberate policy to both forage/craft desert and forest. Now, if I am forced one way or the other, I will not be able to buy new plans for BOTH my skills.

Will I get recompense of sp for my redundant skills or will I just be another victim of Jessica's policy of frigging the old timers and butt kissing the more recent, PvP incomers?

I can understand the critical need to increase membership but surely there has to be a balancing. If Nevrax want to go all out PvP/FvF then I have a choice but if I want to stay in game then I have to give up those long sessions building both sets of skills, well one set anyway.

As an example: I forage desert 200 & forest 160. Would I be able to swap the redundant forage for the same level in another land. Maybe even PR? Or would I get a maximum forage level in the one of my choice? Craft raises similar questions.

Well Jessica?

[thlau]

I really like to know how the current fame ratings will translate in the second edition of the fame system.

What happens if I am a Tryker with 100 personal fame for Tryker and Zorai Civilisations and I choose to become a Tryker Citizen, will I then have 100% personal Fame with Tryker and 0% with Zorai? Or if I stay neutral will they both be capped to 50% ?

[tridman]

Now, if I am forced one way or the other, I will not be able to buy new plans for BOTH my skills.

Will I get recompense of sp for my redundant skills...

öhm.. sry, but why do you think one skill will be redundant? Even if you don´t want to stay neutral you will not be forced to stay out of the other factions land. Only if you push it to getting -50 (or less) Fame with the Matis you will get in trouble with NSC-Guards. As long as you don´t get beyond this threshold you will be able to walk through all cities and visit the trainers of every land as it has always been.

What happens if I am a Tryker with 100 personal fame for Tryker and Zorai Civilisations and I choose to become a Tryker Citizen, will I then have 100% personal Fame with Tryker and 0% with Zorai? Or if I stay neutral will they both be capped to 50% ?

In my understanding: Yes to both questions.

[alyssah]

öhm.. sry, but why do you think one skill will be redundant? Even if you don´t want to stay neutral you will not be forced to stay out of the other factions land. .
I'd like to hear a Nevrax rep say that will be the case. Unless you are speaking for Nevrax and know something I don't? I can quite easily see the embargo extending to trainers etc. Clarification would be welcomed.

[mrshad]

If the only benifit is the ability to attack first in a PvP zone...How will fame benfit those of us who would rather avoid PvP?

And, although I belive in repentance, the ability to switch from pro-faction to neutral immediatly strikes me as wrong. Maybe I am misreading something, and the penitant will have to work his sins away :)

[tridman]

Unless you are speaking for Nevrax and know something I don't?

No. I´m just speaking for myself and how I understand it. And I strongly believe that there are some things, that are so obviously unfair that even Nevrax wouldn´t dare to do it.
Putting some restrictions into game that would affect all is one thing, but putting something into the game that gives some people (in this case, people who have maxed skills of other countries) an advabtage over all others is another.

But maybe some words from Xavier would realy do some good?

[michielb]

So where does the PvP flag come in or is gonna be more of the "stay away from PvP area's if you don't want to get involved"?

[oldmess]

If the only benifit is the ability to attack first in a PvP zone...How will fame benfit those of us who would rather avoid PvP?

I don't believe they've given that any thought. Or at least none they've shared with us. This fame change appears to be primarily aimed at the upcoming FvF war.

And, although I belive in repentance, the ability to switch from pro-faction to neutral immediatly strikes me as wrong. Maybe I am misreading something, and the penitant will have to work his sins away :)

He does. Switching to neutral doesn't change your fame. You had to get a +30 of better to join a faction or become a citizen. So, switching to neutral just re-opens you to the possiblity of changing to another religion, but you still have to fix your fame and do the rites.

(all statements based on a reading of the document and my own assumptions and biases; not an inside knowledge of the workings of the devs)

[oldmess]

So where does the PvP flag come in or is gonna be more of the "stay away from PvP area's if you don't want to get involved"?

I think the PvP flag is a separate thing so they didn't include it in this. This doc is all about how you determine which faction you're in. Being against or for PvP and being in a specific faction or being neutral are potentially different issues.

More importantly, as you see more of the game mechanics coming up (the fame doc and the new Spires), are you starting to get a clearer vision of how you are going to play the Tryker Freestate? :D I'm beginning to suspect you're little rebellion isn't fitting into the devs plan. Not that it should stop you; just that we all have to play within the mechanics we're given to a degree.

No, I'm not trying to hijack this thread; feel free to post reponses in the freestate thread or a new thread.

[kibsword]

hmmm I think I like the general sound of this. I'm sure they will have to tweak and change things before this works fully on live, but if Nevrax do a reasonable job on this it should make the game a lot more interesting. Also worth noting it said that both outposts (we already knew) and this faction control point stuff is out this month with the new fame system \o/

[tylarth]

so... be neutral have freedom of movement as before with a slight hit to merchant prices.

or.. side with faction and race lose probably 50% of freedom of movement and trade, oh and have to do rites for this.

So what is the advantage in choosing citizenship and cult? just the privilage to attack a neutral 1st?

[rushin]

So what is the advantage in choosing citizenship and cult? just the privilage to attack a neutral 1st?
there's this little thing called the story :)

[tylarth]

But to forward the story one need a little benefit + motivation, for E2 its the rewards for the hons pts, for OP its the specials that come with owning one. The advantage to be a citizen/cult member should be clear in practical terms not just RP, as it stands the document favours the neutral. Which is bizarre as it is the neutral that has to do the least for the status and loses the least.

[luinil]

I think that only citizens will have acces to some features like racial stanzas.

[altomesa]

so... be neutral have freedom of movement as before with a slight hit to merchant prices.

or.. side with faction and race lose probably 50% of freedom of movement and trade, oh and have to do rites for this.

So what is the advantage in choosing citizenship and cult? just the privilage to attack a neutral 1st?

I was just thinking the same thing. Aside from roleplaying and making some serious sacrifices to do so, why wouldn't I want to be neutral? I know from being a PR forager that I sure wouldn't want to lose those precious tp's. So I guess I don't get it.

[marct]

I think that only citizens will have acces to some features like racial stanzas.Yeah, I think there are to be implemented benefits that they alluded to that you would only be able to achieve through citizenship or cult membership.

I can see a lot of Neutrals(Cult wise) still being Citizens somewhere. Why not?

Noin.

[philu]

Sounds like more of Nevrax kicking the non-PvPers in the unmentionables to me. If you choose to be neutral, you become a target for the gankers and at a complete disadvantage.

Definitely going to be a case of - "if you want to be neutral, stay out of PvP areas"!

I'd also like to know from someone at Nevrax (are you awake Lawrence??!!) what happens to members of guilds from 'opposing' races. For example, what about a Tryker in a Fyros based guild, or a Fyros in a Matis based guild? Is that still possible?

[xenofur]

I'd also like to know from someone at Nevrax (are you awake Lawrence??!!) what happens to members of guilds from 'opposing' races. For example, what about a Tryker in a Fyros based guild, or a Fyros in a Matis based guild? Is that still possible?read the text, it's all written there...
if the tryker has fyros citizenship he can join a fyros-based guild
if not he can only join the guild if it's neutral

if the fyros has matis citizenship he can join a matis-based guild
if not he can only join the guild if it's neutral

[iphdrunk]

Yeah, I think there are to be implemented benefits that they alluded to that you would only be able to achieve through citizenship or cult membership.

that's interesting, a few players have requested racial differences for a while. Personally, I'm pretty much ok with all the players getting access to most of the stanzas. A few differences, not many, may add some uniqueness, but they also open the possibility to more imbalance (e.g. the kami cultists get access to a new elemental spell and the karavan cultists to new pistols :rolleyes:), the classless system is a good point of Ryzom, and hopefully these differences are balanced as well.

The good thing is that this is apparently going live with Chapter 3 (I forgot the date, actually, when is it Nov 26th?). It may be a good idea to copy our characters to ATS (those with access) to test the guild and fame changes

[akicks]

One thing that intrigues me.... when did the zorai and tryker become anti one another?

I would have thought that the Zorai people would be more anti the Matis than the Tryker. (Stated starting fame -20% Tryker, -10 % Matis)

Zorai and Matis get along (Zorai have towns named after Jena)

[akicks]

I'm sure a few people would be in this situation:
What happens to your apartment if you have -50 fame with the civ where your apartment is?

Sure, you can't go there anymore - but then I should be able to transfer my apartment to a more... hospitable enviroment.

[kgrieve]

I looked at this and I like the idea, just that it doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the game mechanics. At the moment we have the freedom to develop our characters as we see fit. Adding cap values doesn't seem to fit this philosophy.

Most of the mechanics is that it gets harder and harder to reach the higher levels. My suggestion is that it is harder to get fame in opposing races, but still possible to get 100%. That would fit with the existing philosophy while being able to develop as you wish.
Rather than cap the values I would suggest that getting fame with an opposing race is just much harder. For example if you are a Fyros: you work for Fyros fame and get 100% of the fame points, for Tryker fame 30% and for Matis fame get 5% of the fame points.

[philu]

read the text, it's all written there...
if the tryker has fyros citizenship he can join a fyros-based guild
if not he can only join the guild if it's neutral

if the fyros has matis citizenship he can join a matis-based guild
if not he can only join the guild if it's neutral

I did read it again, twice. ;)

It does seem to suggest that. That's OK then. :)

I still think Nevrax need to respond to some of the concerns raised here.

I have another question regarding this, that definitely doesn't seem to have been answered (or do I need another read?). Will we be able to see the information on cult/nation for other players and other guilds?

Say, for example, someone wanted to play a Fyros who was a staunch Kami supporter. As part of that, this player didn't want to associate with the 'enemy' - i.e. anyone supporting the Karavan. How would they know if someone they were teamed with is a Karavan supporter?

Another example, a player is thinking of joining a guild. Will they be able to find out before thay apply what cult/nation that guild belongs to? Thereby saving themselves the bother if the guild doesn't fit their needs?

There's a mention of titles, but titles can be changed so they're no indicator. I never change mine.

[norvic]

This looks good to me finally some real impact of Fame and the choices you make as to how you play your Char. For sure may need tweaking but about time the politics of Atys had some real impact. Choose your path and take the consequences/benefits the idea of wandering all over with no consequence to your actions has always puzzled me when Kami/Kara and other tensions have always been part of the storyline. Just wandering anywhere always seemed abit woolly to me this should make Atys more of a Dynamic place and people will have to think more in some ways, its not necessarily forcing PvP on people but also forcing RP in which people must put more thought into their character development.

Thumbs up from me.

[michielb]

Sadly this will probably adversely affect the more "liberal" guilds not only will they have to choose one of the three sides in this conflict but the will also have to enforce it amongst their members.



This whole fame buissness raises a few questions though,

Will a guild with a neutral nationality be able to get a guild hall in any city they choose?

What will happens to a guild hall (and it's content) should a guild decide to change nationality?

[gwythion]

The bit I have trouble with understanding the logic of is this:

"Since nations enforce strict rules on citizenship, this has an influence on which guild a given character can join:

* A citizen can only enter a guild of his own nation;
* A neutral character can enter either a neutral guild or a guild with a nation."


I would have expected that this would be the other way round:

* A citizen can enter either a neutral guild or a guild of his own nation;
* A neutral character can only enter a neutral guild.

Surely an unaligned guild is just that, happy to take people of all backgrounds. An aligned guild would only trust those of its alignment.

Can some explain either the RP or game mechanic reason as to why it is as proposed.

[michielb]

The bit I have trouble with understanding the logic of is this:

"Since nations enforce strict rules on citizenship, this has an influence on which guild a given character can join:

* A citizen can only enter a guild of his own nation;
* A neutral character can enter either a neutral guild or a guild with a nation."


I would have expected that this would be the other way round:

* A citizen can enter either a neutral guild or a guild of his own nation;
* A neutral character can only enter a neutral guild.

Surely an unaligned guild is just that, happy to take people of all backgrounds. An aligned guild would only trust those of its alignment.

Can some explain either the RP or game mechanic reason as to why it is as proposed.

As far as I can tell the "neutral" option is stricktly game mechanics: it serves as a go between for the two factions.

Basically you're not supposed to be neutral....

[gwythion]

As far as I can tell the "neutral" option is stricktly game mechanics: it serves as a go between for the two factions.

Basically you're not supposed to be neutral....


I can see that in terms of charcters but not in terms of the relationship between characters and guilds. However I fear that your last bit is the point. It suggests that there is intended to be a close coupling between Guild outposts and the faction war. A coupling that would be undermined if there were to be a large number of neutral guilds.

[petej]

so... be neutral have freedom of movement as before with a slight hit to merchant prices.

or.. side with faction and race lose probably 50% of freedom of movement and trade, oh and have to do rites for this.

So what is the advantage in choosing citizenship and cult? just the privilage to attack a neutral 1st?

Probably to be able to get higher reward Rites (if/when they ever get in game , maybe this is the real reason theyve been withheld so far ?)

[michielb]

I can see that in terms of charcters but not in terms of the relationship between characters and guilds. However I fear that your last bit is the point. It suggests that there is intended to be a close coupling between Guild outposts and the faction war. A coupling that would be undermined if there were to be a large number of neutral guilds.

Allowing for neutral guilds (allowing neutrals to organise themselfs) would result in a "thirt faction" in the conflict potentially splitting Atys up in three "nations" this system therefor undermines my efforts for a Tryker Freestate, making it nothing but mere role play...

More importantly, as you see more of the game mechanics coming up (the fame doc and the new Spires), are you starting to get a clearer vision of how you are going to play the Tryker Freestate? :D I'm beginning to suspect you're little rebellion isn't fitting into the devs plan. Not that it should stop you; just that we all have to play within the mechanics we're given to a degree.

[sprite]

You'll see in this document that factions will be progressively less permissive and will be more careful when it comes to deciding who their friends and enemies are.Does this mean they'll be significantly "changing the goal posts" in the future?

Oh, and by "significantly" I mean I'm fine with the caps for cult/race members changing, but pleeeeaaassseeeeeee leave (or raise) the caps for neutrals :D

[sofiaoak]

Neutrals can't attack during a nation or cult PvP event, but can be attacked and then counter-attack.
This is not accetable for me. Leaves me three choise.

1. Play game, but stay out of any area where this is happening.
2. Quit from my guild or game
3. Not play when this all is happening.

[cloudy97]

Congratulations Nevrax!

Apart from a few questions I am convinced you actually listen to complains and try to make a better, more complex game for us all. I'm sure there will be issues, but the intent is clear.

Well done!

[philu]

Oh, and by "significantly" I mean I'm fine with the caps for cult/race members changing, but pleeeeaaassseeeeeee leave (or raise) the caps for neutrals :D

I don't agree, I think the caps for neutrals should be lower. So you get less for sitting on the fence. :p

Way I see it, Nevrax are trying to give us choices that have consequences. Your choices will affect what you can get from the game. There are rewards for choosing a nation and cult. I see no problem with getting less reward for choosing neither cult.

Personally I see my problem as this - I am fyros and I 'support' the Kami. However, I am not a killer and will not kill for them. I am a healer.

I want to be Fyros race, Kami cult but PvP neutral. I don't like PvP. So how do I play that within this system? Do I just choose Fyros citizenship, Kami cult, stay away from PvP areas and set my PvP flag off when it goes global?


Apart from a few questions I am convinced you actually listen to complains and try to make a better, more complex game for us all.

Not if they don't answer the questions raised here. Only then will i agree they listen. This thread has been running long enough for some Nevrax input.

*nudges Lawrence, Xavier and Jessica*

[michielb]

I don't agree, I think the caps for neutrals should be lower. So you get less for sitting on the fence. :p

Not sure what document you've been reading but you can be sure that those "sitting on the fence" will get NOTHING! :(

Not if they don't answer the questions raised here. Only then will i agree they listen. This thread has been running long enough for some Nevrax input.

*nudges Lawrence, Xavier and Jessica*

My thoughts exactly...

[dakhound]

I'm sorry but this is plain Bullcrap.

I and probably a few other play the game for fun, I dont pick sides I rarely take part in any of the events and my guild is mixed with people from all 4 races.

I hate the silly missions and have never done a rite (are there any even worth doing yet) so my fame is pretty much untouched.

are nevrax going all out to make it difficult for a guild of players who just like to play together, putting more and more restrictions on the choices we can make? I always liked this game for the freedom it gives you to choose your own path, no classes no factions etc but now its moving in a new direction. whats next making fyros melee specialists and zorai magic specialists.

*goes off to check the D&L webpage again........

[ajsuk]

quite.. Bull indeed. I think some of this stuff could be really great if tweaked a bit but restricting where we can already go and who we play with isn't on imo.
I don't live inside my guild..

If this goes through.. Well it's the first item that'll go on my 'reasons to leave' list. :rolleyes:

[gwythion]

I agree, I think that neutral guilds should be broad guilds and allow characters of any faction to join. If the guild then wants to be more restrictive then it can just not allow non-neutrals or ask those that become aligned to leave.

The bit I like most about the more freewheeling Guilds is that not all the players agree entirely about things. I get exposed to more ideas and information related to other points of view than I would do if everyone else in the guild agreed with my own faction/nation choices. By doing so I have to think more about those choices.

[grimjim]

I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around it at the moment.

So maybe a few examples.

In the current event would neutrals be...
1 - Attackable by both sides?
2 - Healable by both sides?
3 - Able to heal either side?
4 - Unable to attack either side?
5 - Able to dig/Craft for either side freely?

If we have a current guild and have members of other races and creeds, what happens to them?
1 - What happens to a Jena follower in a Kami guild (and vice versa)? (Bearing in mind that belief needn't equal fanatacism and many hominists still adhere to a milder form of their faith).
2 - Can people with different civilisation affiliations join together in a single guild?
3 - Who can and can't join a neutral guild?
4 - Who can and can't join a civ affiliated guild?
5 - Who can and can't join a religion affiliated guild?

It seems like a needless bunch of restrictions on free association that could break up and destroy several guilds who - like the man said - just want to play together or whose philosophy is togetherness regardless.

[sprite]

1 - What happens to a Jena follower in a Kami guild (and vice versa)? (Bearing in mind that belief needn't equal fanatacism and many hominists still adhere to a milder form of their faith).They go "unspecified" along with the guild for some amount of time. Eventually you'll have to choose one way or the other
2 - Can people with different civilisation affiliations join together in a single guild?Not if they are "citizens"
3 - Who can and can't join a neutral guild?Only players neutral to the race/cult the guild is neutral too (if the guild is race&cult-neutral, only race&cult-neutral players can join)
4 - Who can and can't join a civ affiliated guild?Players who are citzens of that race, or race-neutral players
5 - Who can and can't join a religion affiliated guild?Players who are converts of that cult, or cult-neutral players

It seems to me these rules are based on the character's own set of morals (that the player doesn't get to enforce) - a race citizen will only join a group who hold the same views as him, not a neutral one. Most people on these boards seem to take the "guild" view of things (ie as a guild they will only permit/refuse certain citizens... I can't quite explain this right but its kind of the difference between character-centric and guild-centric)

Because of this "character-centric" way of doing things, your questions are much easier to answer when posed as "what guilds can a race citizen join?" or "what guilds can a race-neutral player join?".... at least to me anyways :o

[philu]

I dont pick sides I rarely take part in any of the events

So how come you took sides in EP2 then? You fought for the Kami and you know it. That's taking part in an event. :p

[sprite]

I dont pick sides I rarely take part in any of the eventsSo how come you took sides in EP2 then? You fought for the Kami and you know it. That's taking part in an event. :p
rarely is the operative word :)

[michielb]

I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around it at the moment.

<snip>

It seems like a needless bunch of restrictions on free association that could break up and destroy several guilds who - like the man said - just want to play together or whose philosophy is togetherness regardless.

I'll see your questions and raise you a few...

Can a neutral guild (civ&religion) take and hold spires?
Can a neutral guild (civ&religion) take and hold outposts?

[philu]

rarely is the operative word :)

1) Doesn't explain the taking of sides (rarely = events)

2) Was I talking to you? :p

[philu]

I'll see your questions and raise you a few...

Can a neutral guild (civ&religion) take and hold spires?
Can a neutral guild (civ&religion) take and hold outposts?

Raise you a "Can a Fyros citizen with Kami Cult choose PvP flag off?" ;)

[michielb]

1) Doesn't explain the taking of sides (rarely = events)

2) Was I talking to you? :p


Suggestion for a new forum section....The PvP section: the area of choice for flame wars :D

[michielb]

Raise you a "Can a Fyros citizen with Kami Cult choose PvP flag off?" ;)

Er.....no. You would have to be a citizen of the Tryker Freestate and stay away from the bar in Windemeer as the Tryker Foreign Legion recruits there...;)

[grimjim]

Because of this "character-centric" way of doing things, your questions are much easier to answer when posed as "what guilds can a race citizen join?" or "what guilds can a race-neutral player join?".... at least to me anyways :o

If your guesses are correct than I shift from 'Defcon Cautious Optimism' to Defcon 'Pants'.

[philu]

Er.....no. You would have to be a citizen of the Tryker Freestate and stay away from the bar in Windemeer as the Tryker Foreign Legion recruits there...;)

Cool where do I sign up? Oh and where do I get my beer from then....?

[michielb]

If your guesses are correct than I shift from 'Defcon Cautious Optimism' to Defcon 'Pants'.

Better shift to 'Pants' then cuz I think he's right on the mark....

[ajsuk]

RL situation:

Born in to a religion.. May want to follow it, may not.. should be able to have the choice in an ideal world, often not the case though is it.

Why pay for a game where you don't?
We're individuels....

If Nevrax expect everybody in a guild to want to do the same things/believe in the same things, hang in the same places & with the same people all of the time then they've got a few more marbles missing than I first thought.

I thought it was all about giving the player more choice??
You give us more content in PvP, then you take it away again by making our guild have a stance for one thing or the other.
Don't you figure some people want to take part in many of these things, not just one or the other?

WTF?

Maybe I'm lost.. I really agree it's about time Nevrax got off their arses and answer some questions.. and maybe really answer them rather than just creating more questions. :rolleyes:

[michielb]

Cool where do I sign up? Oh and where do I get my beer form then....?

Find and talk to "The Prime Subversive" to sign up for the Tryker Freestate.


Oh and the FH bar is relatively safe just don't get too drunk...

[philu]

RL situation:

Born in to a religion.. May want to follow it, may not.. should be able to have the choice in an ideal world, often not the case though is it.

Why pay for a game where you don't?
We're individuels....

If Nevrax expect everybody in a guild to want to do the same things/believe in the same things, hang in the same places & with the same people all of the time then they've got a few more marbles missing than I first thought.

I thought it was all about giving the player more choice??
You give us more content in PvP, then you take it away again by making our guild have a stance for one thing or the other.
Don't you figure some people want to take part in many of these things, not just one or the other?

WTF?

Maybe I'm lost.. I really agree it's about time Nevrax got off their arses and answer some questions.. and maybe really answer them rather than just creating more questions. :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more mate.

[michielb]

I thought it was all about giving the player more choice??
You give us more content in PvP, then you take it away again by making our guild have a stance for one thing or the other.
Don't you figure some people want to take part in many of these things, not just one or the other?

What many of the PvPers don't seem to realise is that the PvP "content" is tied in with the story and the course nevrax has taken means story goes over gameplay.

Face it you're a pawn in nevrax' grand design...

[ajsuk]

heh well, that does seem to be the case.. However I wont be for much longer if it isn't fixed. ;)

[forever]

heh well, that does seem to be the case.. However I wont be for much longer if it isn't fixed. ;)
Fixed? I think it was broken before. What was wrong is it took so long for this content to come out, we have all got use to being able to join any guild with any race or faction for so long now. What we have been doing dose not follow the story line well, we should not have been able to have a guild with member from both factions and all four races from the start. This forces us to pick a side.

The problem is we have been like this for so long we have come to expect it. We have friends from all races and both faction, this dose note mean you have to stop being friends. You may have to pick a side now, but remember this is just a game and we are here to have fun.

I’m happy that Nevrax is putting some need structure in to the game. The game was getting stale; this should put some life back into it.

[grimjim]

Fixed? I think it was broken before. What was wrong is it took so long for this content to come out, we have all got use to being able to join any guild with any race or faction for so long now. What we have been doing dose not follow the story line well, we should not have been able to have a guild with member from both factions and all four races from the start. This forces us to pick a side.
The problem is we have been like this for so long we have come to expect it. We have friends from all races and both faction, this dose note mean you have to stop being friends. You may have to pick a side now, but remember this is just a game and we are here to have fun.

I’m happy that Nevrax is putting some need structure in to the game. The game was getting stale; this should put some life back into it.

Not entirely correct.
What we've been doing has fitted the storyline and lore as it exists, as it was, absolutely perfectly.
It doesn't fit with the future plans perhaps but, rather than run story to push it slowly in that direction its being accomplished with a 'flange' (Or Deus Ex Machina) and some game mechanics.

'Its just a game' doesn't excuse trampling people and is one of those nonsense phrases flung about that are almost guaranteed to cause a hulk out.

[ajsuk]

I can see that.. ;)

Nevrax do apear to have done things arse about face (backwards) but trying to fix it now, like this? bahaha..

Pretty much THE best thing about this game is it's community, cutting it in half now is just nuts. I majorly believe sides can be (and have been, sorta) introduced without totaly splitting people apart which is pretty much whats going to happen.

If thats what they want then everybody who didn't join 5mins ago are gunna be hella lost..

Me thinks..

[michielb]

Fixed? I think it was broken before. What was wrong is it took so long for this content to come out, we have all got use to being able to join any guild with any race or faction for so long now. What we have been doing dose not follow the story line well, we should not have been able to have a guild with member from both factions and all four races from the start. This forces us to pick a side.

The problem is we have been like this for so long we have come to expect it. We have friends from all races and both faction, this dose note mean you have to stop being friends. You may have to pick a side now, but remember this is just a game and we are here to have fun.

I’m happy that Nevrax is putting some need structure in to the game. The game was getting stale; this should put some life back into it.



Did you read your post before you hit the submit button?

First you say that that joining guilds regardless of civ and religion is wrong. That's a storyline perspective.

Then you say: "Uh, but it's just a game."


You're getting your arguments all mixed up.

If it's "just a game" then who the hell cares about faction and race?

But a story is measured by a whole different set of standards...

[forever]

I think this is what they need to do for the long run. Yes they will lose some of the old players, but hopefully they will attract more players. They need these new players or the game will slowly die. The small player base they have now will not support this game for long. This game as it is only appeals to a small group of people and they need to adapt to appeal to a broader part of the market.
This is good and bad, our community was one of the games strong points, but kind of small. Don't know if we can keep this good community, but I would like to try.
:)

[forever]

Did you read your post before you hit the submit button?

First you say that that joining guilds regardless of civ and religion is wrong. That's a storyline perspective.

Then you say: "Uh, but it's just a game."


You're getting your arguments all mixed up.

If it's "just a game" then who the hell cares about faction and race?

But a story is measured by a whole different set of standards...

The story is part of the fun, I care about the faction and race I'm playing, and it makes me feel like I'm taking part in the story.

Sorry, I some times have problem expressing in words how I feel. :(

[gwythion]

Fixed? I think it was broken before. What was wrong is it took so long for this content to come out, we have all got use to being able to join any guild with any race or faction for so long now. What we have been doing dose not follow the story line well, we should not have been able to have a guild with member from both factions and all four races from the start. This forces us to pick a side.

The problem is we have been like this for so long we have come to expect it. We have friends from all races and both faction, this dose note mean you have to stop being friends. You may have to pick a side now, but remember this is just a game and we are here to have fun.

I’m happy that Nevrax is putting some need structure in to the game. The game was getting stale; this should put some life back into it.

I would have more simpathy for this line of reasoning if aligned guilds could only take characters of the same alignment. If it is considered reasonable for aligned guilds to have neutrals as members then I would say that it is reasonable for un-aligned guilds to have aligned members.

That is not to say that the actions of the members should not have an impact on how they interact with the world. Yes the actions of the individuals should, and what options they have would be limited by the choices they make.

By being an aligned member of an unalign guild you would be giving up on things that you could get by being a member of an aligned guild, but retain the possiblity of gaining something by your own actions. So it is not as if this would be something that would have no cost.

[marct]

Pretty much THE best thing about this game is it's community, cutting it in half now is just nuts. I majorly believe sides can be (and have been, sorta) introduced without totaly splitting people apart which is pretty much whats going to happen.

I don't see this at all. Where do you folks get this idea?
If the guild chooses to be part of a nation, it will need to have its headquarters (apartment) in this nation's capital.

Since nations enforce strict rules on citizenship, this has an influence on which guild a given character can join:

A citizen can only enter a guild of his own nation;
A neutral character can enter either a neutral guild or a guild with a nation. I read this to say:
1. It says that a guild can choose to be a National guild or not, by placing it's guild hall in the capital city. A guild that did not want to be associated with a nationality must have it's GH not be in any capital.

2. If My Guild is MATIS, it can contain Matis Citizens and neutral (nationality wise).

I do think, some leeway should be granted here so that A guild that is National can have members of allied Nations. I.E. A Tryker Ctizen could belong to a Matis Guild.


I do think though, a guild can have the choice to be Neutral which allows anyone. (Is this true, A Neutral guild can have members of any Nationality?)

The argument will be that Neutrals are being withheld form certain things... But everyone knows being neutral is very very hard.

Noin.

[grimjim]

Long term the loss of those older players is going to be keenly felt.

Do you want to follow a story or make it yourself?

This is interactive entertainment. I'm not here to be told a story or to act a set and prescripted role.

[calel]

Perhaps next time they should consider explaining things in yeomen terms because I' m not sure I' m getting the big picture and how it will really relate to the global FvF thingie.

However if the things I think to understand are thus that way then I' m actually seeing this as a huge improvment towards how fame works.

However, some questions come to mind.

If a newer Tryker player applies for citizenship in the Lakelands, succeeds, but finds out later he wants to join up with a pro-Matis guild, will he be able to 'migrate' and apply for the half-citizenship there? If so what will it do to his Tryker citizenship, because it would seem weird to me one can apply for all citizenships at the same time (given he has enough fame with all civs)?

Also, will the status of citizenship affect the fame of your 'killer'? Because if it does I' m seeing a whole new way of PvPing which would actually make sense and will require some people to use their brains instead of just firing off offensive spells at anyone that' s tagged red. Killing a high esteemed citizen might then drop your fame with that race drastically and as word of mouth spreads fast the guards will have mugshots of you and act accordingly.

Last thing, correct me if I' m wrong here:
If I understand it right the neutrality towards races and faction, either from a sole character' s perspective and the guild' s, won' t allow you to benefit from spires, better trades, citizenship rewards, etc etc... , but this does not mean you have to be non-PvP flagged, or does it? And does this mean that those homins can travel freely with the use of ALL teleportation altars as they don' t belong to a faction?

[michielb]

(Is this true, A Neutral guild can have members of any Nationality?)

It doesnt look like it is Noin...

[gwythion]

I do think though, a guild can have the choice to be Neutral which allows anyone. (Is this true, A Neutral guild can have members of any Nationality?)

The argument will be that Neutrals are being withheld form certain things... But everyone knows being neutral is very very hard.

Noin.

As far as I can see this is specifically prohibited. I could live with a neutral guild being unable to gain access to faction guild stuff if characters could still do things based on their character faction.

There is a difference between something being very very hard and something being made totally pointless.

[forever]

Long term the loss of those older players is going to be keenly felt.

Do you want to follow a story or make it yourself?

This is interactive entertainment. I'm not here to be told a story or to act a set and prescripted role.

I hope we do not lose to many. :(
I'm not creative enough to make a saga like this so I will let them create it and I will influence it as I can.
I hope R2 gives the creative something to work with.

[grimjim]

I hope we do not lose to many. :(
I'm not creative enough to make a saga like this so I will let them create it and I will influence it as I can.
I hope R2 gives the creative something to work with.

Its not necessarily the numbers - though to me it is more noticable than patch 1 because of the community standing of the people going - its that so many were the organisers and motivators, the creative types and the more ardent RPers. That's a pretty dear loss IMO.

[philu]

Its not necessarily the numbers - though to me it is more noticable than patch 1 because of the community standing of the people going - its that so many were the organisers and motivators, the creative types and the more ardent RPers. That's a pretty dear loss IMO.

Agreed.

Plus it's not a story/saga if there aren't common characters THROUGHOUT. It's a series of randomly thrown together episodes with different characters under the same theme.

It's a set of short stories, not a classic novel. ;)

That's why this SAGA can't afford to lose the old players. It needs player continuity, not a constant stream of players coming and going, to make it a Saga.

I really hope that in 7 years time (assuming Nevrax make it past December), that I can spend my time telling the 'youngsters' about the good old days back in year 1 and 2. The laughs we had, the battles we fought, the Kitin we repelled. How the Kami and the Karavan fought their war. How we survived it and went on to build a better Atys. ;)

Sadly my mood feels that camel coming back. :(

[ajsuk]

Sh*tting on the people who helped make the game what it is isn't going to do Nevrax's rep any good.

If they do I think alot of people will make an effort to flame Nevrax at every turn, not only in Ryzom but any future games too. :cool:

[dakhound]

So how come you took sides in EP2 then? You fought for the Kami and you know it. That's taking part in an event. :p

hmmm for roughty 30mins and notched up a whole 690 honour point getting ate by kinchers

does that count as rarely in your book

other events attended -

kami meeting (left b4 it started)
kitin invasion (one where new portal opened)

uhhhm thats it in 1yr of play.


and as for "you went kami".....................like I had a choice?. my untouched fame dealt with that

[marct]

Ok, The Neutral guild questions aside. (Please explain this more.)

Being a Neutral seems like a huge advantage.

Nationality Point of view:

Neutral: can have fame of +50 with every Race.
Naturalized citizen:
+100 Fame with the home Nation
+75 with closest Ally Nation
+25 with dis-favored Nation
+0 with the Eternal enemy

This in the end seems very balanced, I can have +200 total fame either way I choose. The neutral however can access the fame realted items upto 50 of every single nation. Which seems to be a huge advantage over a Citizen whom totally misses out on one nation, and can barely access anyhting from a second.

The benefits form being a citizen should be huge in the 2 Nations that favor you, as the Neutral appears to have access to so much more.


The same thing happens to a greater degree with the Cults.


On another Fame note; I do not think it is good to achieve fame and then remain with that fame even though you do nothing to maintain that. Fame should Decay over time, both in-game, and RL time if you are out of game for some time. Maybe out of game time changes the Rate of decay, but you only decay while you are in-game.

Additionally, more things that you do everyday should influence your fame. Either that or make there be a real reason to do missions. Doing missions is not integrated into the story or the gameplay today, they are static, never change, and have limited point to them.

Basically fame is just a grind, not a result of your actions in the world.


Noin.

P.S. Can we get some moderation from a dev on these feedback threads, this one way thing is not allowing for creativity really. Maybe a few chat sessions, or at least someone whom can elaborate or answer or participate in our discussions from the dev team.

[noceros]

Additionally, more things that you do everyday should influence your fame. Either that or make there be a real reason to do missions. Doing missions is not integrated into the story or the gameplay today, they are static, never change, and have limited point to them.

Basically fame is just a grind, not a result of your actions in the world.


I totally agree with this. It would be interesting if your fame in an area changed, say if lots of people bought your items for sale, or depending on who you attack in a pvp situation. The way I see it, missions don't really mean anything.

[norvic]

Agrees with Neva, the game we have been playing isnt quite what was intended sure its been handled a little heavy handedly maybe and some areas still need alot of work to support everyones playstyle but its gettin more dynamic and better imo. Sure I regret people leaving some I have shared alot of time with and am really sorry to see them go they will be missed.

But

"Four civililisations seek to tame the wild planet of Atys- A world in the crushing grip of mother nature on which Giant insects and myterious factions dwell amidst a bubbling ancestral war. what part will you play in this epic 8 year adventure"

Taken from the box. This is the game I bought into, this is what grabbed my imagination, to those who say the current situation isnt supported by the lore and storyline i say read it again.

If I wanted to play UN, Woodstock, or similar I wouldnt be here in the first place.

These new fame/faction changes define your char more specifically they do not take away your choice so play your part and play it well now the storyline IS finally moving on.

[grimjim]

Taken from the box. This is the game I bought into, this is what grabbed my imagination, to those who say the current situation isnt supported by the lore and storyline i say read it again.

I have.

Read my analysis.

It might be the intention - what is happening - but the prep and groundwork could have been a lot better.

And no game survives contact with the players.

[noceros]

I have mixed feelings about the fame changes in general. I do think they make sense with regard to the history and lore. However, I don't like them because they have the potential to take away much of the freedom we've had for so long.

Currently, it seems that I will be able to continue to play as I have been without too much trouble. As long as I keep my Zorai charater stateless, she can still be a member in her Matis-based guild without losing more than the faintly whispered promises of toys that are not likely to appear anytime soon. ;)

On the other hand, if I have to choose between her pride in the heritage of her race and her life with her guildmates and friends, my ultimate decision will likely be to take a long vacation from Atys.

[gwythion]

Being a Neutral seems like a huge advantage.

Nationality Point of view:

Neutral: can have fame of +50 with every Race.
Naturalized citizen:
+100 Fame with the home Nation
+75 with closest Ally Nation
+25 with dis-favored Nation
+0 with the Eternal enemy

This in the end seems very balanced, I can have +200 total fame either way I choose. The neutral however can access the fame realted items upto 50 of every single nation. Which seems to be a huge advantage over a Citizen whom totally misses out on one nation, and can barely access anyhting from a second.

The benefits form being a citizen should be huge in the 2 Nations that favor you, as the Neutral appears to have access to so much more.


The same thing happens to a greater degree with the Cults.


Without knowing what the benefits are it is impossible to just how fair this is. It may be that you only get access to the must have benefits once over 50. The main impact at the moment is trade prices and here I would say that having one 100% is far more useful than any number of locations at 50%.


On another Fame note; I do not think it is good to achieve fame and then remain with that fame even though you do nothing to maintain that. Fame should Decay over time, both in-game, and RL time if you are out of game for some time. Maybe out of game time changes the Rate of decay, but you only decay while you are in-game.


That seems sort of reasonable as there are not as far as I know any great hero missions that would be remembered for generations to come.



Additionally, more things that you do everyday should influence your fame. Either that or make there be a real reason to do missions. Doing missions is not integrated into the story or the gameplay today, they are static, never change, and have limited point to them.

Basically fame is just a grind, not a result of your actions in the world.


Very true but apart from PvP there is nothing in existance in the game so far that I can think of that could be easily extended to do this. Can you give examples of how this could be done?


Noin.

P.S. Can we get some moderation from a dev on these feedback threads, this one way thing is not allowing for creativity really. Maybe a few chat sessions, or at least someone whom can elaborate or answer or participate in our discussions from the dev team.

That would be nice but give them a break, yes there are already lots of messages with questions but this thread has only been up a couple of days. I would guess that the most you could get right now is "we are looking at your messages and talking about them".



Looking back a the initial posting back in July http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16555&page=1&pp=10 I take back the bit about only having had a couple of days to work on a response they have had these questions before so presumably have the answers to hand.

[michielb]

And an other great opportunity to communicate with the community gone to waste.

How long before you guys realise that giving only bits and pieces of information and leaving the rest open to speculation is just as damaging, maybe more, as staying silent?

People are asking questions, failing to answer means they will answer them themselves and possibly leave...

[ajsuk]

coooorect. :rolleyes:

[akicks]

2) Was I talking to you? :p
In a forum, yes.

[sidusar]

One thing I would also like clarified is how those fame caps will work. It says for example that a Matis Citizen can have a maximum of 0 fame with the Fyros. Let's say I currently have 80 personal fame with the Fyros. If I were to become a Matis Citizen, would my Civilisation fame with the Fyros drop to -100 preserving my personal fame (so that I have -20 global fame with them and that I can attain at maximum 0 global fame with them), or would my 80 personal fame simply vanish?

I do, in fact, have 80 or more personal fame with all four races, which took quite some missions to accomplish. This announcements about fame caps is like saying: "Okay, to promote more diversity between homin skills, you will from now on be forced to choose: you can be either 250 in magic skills and then your fight skills will be capped at 50, or you can be 250 in fight skills and then your magic skills will be capped at 50, or both will be capped at 150." Sure, it probably makes for a more balanced and interesting system in the end, but those who already have both skills above 200 are going to be feel cheated out of the work they put in attaining those levels.

[philu]

In a forum, yes.

No actually I think you'll find my question was directed at Jackoba.

Not Spriteh and not you. :p



Soooo 11 pages of endless speculation and STILL no response from Nevrax? At ALL?? Bad, very bad.

What's up? Lawrence too busy looking for threads to lock pointlessly while leaving the flame threads to run days/pages too long?

[tridman]

One thing I would also like clarified is how those fame caps will work. It says for example that a Matis Citizen can have a maximum of 0 fame with the Fyros. Let's say I currently have 80 personal fame with the Fyros. If I were to become a Matis Citizen, would my Civilisation fame with the Fyros drop to -100 preserving my personal fame (so that I have -20 global fame with them and that I can attain at maximum 0 global fame with them), or would my 80 personal fame simply vanish?

If I understand it correctly the second. The example:
At first you will be "unspecified". The moment you choose either a side or neutral the caps will become active. If you choose to be Matis citicen your Fyros Fame will instantly drop to 0 (the max cap for Fyros). From the RP point of view it makes sense since at the moment the Fyros hear you avowed (corrct word?) yourself to the Matis they'll be angry with you and that would result in distrust. The moment you then choose to become neutral again, the distrust will fade to a point where you can get a fame of 50 with them. To again get 75 or even 100 Fame with Fyros you will either have to avow yourself to Zorai (Fyros trust Zorai more than neutrals; max cap 75) or Fyros.

[philu]

If I understand it correctly the second. The example:
At first you will be "unspecified". The moment you choose either a side or neutral the caps will become active. If you choose to be Matis citicen your Fyros Fame will instantly drop to 0 (the max cap for Fyros). From the RP point of view it makes sense since at the moment the Fyros hear you avowed (corrct word?) yourself to the Matis they'll be angry with you and that would result in distrust. The moment you then choose to become neutral again, the distrust will fade to a point where you can get a fame of 50 with them. To again get 75 or even 100 Fame with Fyros you will either have to avow yourself to Zorai (Fyros trust Zorai more than neutrals; max cap 75) or Fyros.

Yep that sounds about right based on their description. As you say, it makes sense from an RP point of view. If you declare allegiance to the Matis, the Fyros would obviously mistrust you.

I would still like to know how this will be displayed from a gameplay point of view. How will one player be able to see another's nation/cult allegiance? How will a non-member be able to see a guild's nation/cult allegiance?

[gwythion]

What happens to the Guild Hall if a neutral guild becomes nation aligned and the guild hall is not in the capital of that nation?

[philu]

What happens to the Guild Hall if a neutral guild becomes nation aligned and the guild hall is not in the capital of that nation?

That's a very good question. Also raises another - it says that to be nation aligned your guild hall must be in that nation's capital. Does that mean we can have guild halls in different places other than the capitals? (Imagines a short stagger from the bar in Thesos back to the guild hall ;) )

Or should it read, you can only align your guild with the nation your guild hall is in? Which would mean your scenario can't happen. Perhaps that's what they mean. For example, if your GH is in Pyr, you can only be Fyros aligned.

[gwythion]

I dont know how Nevrax get these letters written but maybe they should change it. I suspect that those that write them know too much about things and that makes what they write seem perfectly clear to them and anything but to everyone else. They are probably wandering arround now saying but its obvious that ... and it just isn't to those that dont have all the info.

[gwythion]

Or should it read, you can only align your guild with the nation your guild hall is in? Which would mean your scenario can't happen. Perhaps that's what they mean. For example, if your GH is in Pyr, you can only be Fyros aligned.

It could quite well mean that, in which case what happens for existing guilds that were setup in one nation and now find that the mix of players that they have would lead them to be aligned with another nation. Will they be able to have their Guild Hall relocated?

[calel]

Something else to wonder about:

If a Zorai citizen has a max cap of 0 Tryker fame, does that mean certain rites handed out or obtained in the Lakleands won' t work or be obtainable? (requires 38 Tryker fame iirc). And vice versa ofcourse.
And what would happen to those that already have those specific rites?

[gwythion]

Something else to wonder about:

If a Zorai citizen has a max cap of 0 Tryker fame, does that mean certain rites handed out or obtained in the Lakleands won' t work or be obtainable? (requires 38 Tryker fame iirc). And vice versa of course.
And what would happen to those that already have those specific rites?

First reading of this I thought it would be a one time problem that could be dealt with as part of the patching problem but it is not. This issue will be true everytime someone changes alignment. Seems to me that either the code that is run when you change alignment will strip you of "invalid" rites or it wont. It depends on how metaphysical Nevrax want to be about the game. It may be that you keep rites gained based on Race missions but lose those based on Cult. The cult ones could be lost due to divine intervention or mystic powers or techical gagetry.

[philu]

So many questions, so few (i.e. none) answers.

I do so hope that the reason there have been no answers is Nevrax have fallen asleep. I hope it isn't due to them furiously running about saying "Oh darn, that's another issue we didn't think about!" :p

[marct]

Something else to wonder about:

If a Zorai citizen has a max cap of 0 Tryker fame, does that mean certain rites handed out or obtained in the Lakleands won' t work or be obtainable? (requires 38 Tryker fame iirc). And vice versa of course.
And what would happen to those that already have those specific rites?First reading of this I thought it would be a one time problem that could be dealt with as part of the patching problem but it is not. This issue will be true everytime someone changes alignment. Seems to me that either the code that is run when you change alignment will strip you of "invalid" rites or it wont. It depends on how metaphysical Nevrax want to be about the game. It may be that you keep rites gained based on Race missions but lose those based on Cult. The cult ones could be lost due to divine intervention or mystic powers or techical gagetry. I see this as the whole point, or one of the major points of this. It will highly reward those highly associated with a civilization or cult a few very cool things(only from the civilization they Adore, and a bit from it's favorite neighbor. For someone who chooses to be Neutral they gets cool things to a certain level from EVERY culture (missing the super cool things). For those that flip-flop and work fame to death(See note later) They can earn the rites from every civilization/cult to whatever level they work it, and the system does not penalize flip-flopers.

I really see no need to take away things you have earned (rites, stanzas, plans, etc.)


FAME needs to be more than missions or killing tribes. It needs to be every action you do, or at least more than today for this system to work as well as it seems. Why do we go hunt plods, to Lvl. What if you had to get missions to go hunt or you didn't get XP? More like we need 100 gingos, 50 torbaks, and 200 cuttlers killed, take a team and accomplish this goal and you will be handsomely rewarded with 'X'. Or if you got the missions, you got rewarded at the end somehow, maybe faster XP gain, or something. You could maybe do partial credit on these things. I really think the governments and the cults, and the Guilds should have a lot more control on the direction of the world.

Just continuing the discussion,

Noin.

[gwythion]

I see this as the whole point, or one of the major points of this. It will highly reward those highly associated with a civilization or cult a few very cool things(only from the civilization they Adore, and a bit from it's favorite neighbor. For someone who chooses to be Neutral they gets cool things to a certain level from EVERY culture (missing the super cool things). For those that flip-flop and work fame to death(See note later) They can earn the rites from every civilization/cult to whatever level they work it, and the system does not penalize flip-flopers.

I really see no need to take away things you have earned (rites, stanzas, plans, etc.)


For nation/race related rites etc I agree 100%. I would feel that they represent learnt knowledge.

However at the moment one of the big reasons that my characters are non-believers even if they are aligned for other reasons to one cult or the other is the basic lack of any sense that there are gods. Yes there are powerful forces at work in the world but that is not the same thing. Losing some abilites because you no longer believe in your god as much as you did would it seem to me make the god aspect more concrete. If you do not lose the abilities as you no longer have the appropriate fame then to me it would give more force to the claim that these are not gods as once they have given you knowledge they cannot take it away.


FAME needs to be more than missions or killing tribes. It needs to be every action you do, or at least more than today for this system to work as well as it seems. Why do we go hunt plods, to Lvl. What if you had to get missions to go hunt or you didn't get XP? More like we need 100 gingos, 50 torbaks, and 200 cuttlers killed, take a team and accomplish this goal and you will be handsomely rewarded with 'X'. Or if you got the missions, you got rewarded at the end somehow, maybe faster XP gain, or something. You could maybe do partial credit on these things. I really think the governments and the cults, and the Guilds should have a lot more control on the direction of the world.

Just continuing the discussion,

Noin.

Agree I 100% and would include in that the ability of players to overthrow governments not to their liking. I hoped that outposts would start to address some of these issues which is why I am disappointed that they are so closely linked to that which shall not be named.

[vguerin]

I really see no need to take away things you have earned (rites, stanzas, plans, etc.)I would have a serious problem with losing anything I have earned and paid for... literally and figuratively. If their new content follows some of these silly rules they plan to implement, that is fine. Taking away anything I had to work for (and pay to play) will not earn them much favor with me and surely many others.

[gwythion]

Are there any Kami or Karavan rites, special bricks or anything in existance at the moment?

If there are not then they could have my suggestion re cults without someone losing something they had earnt under the current rules.

Afterall if someone stops believing in their god there should be some consequences should there not.

[sidusar]

I would have a serious problem with losing anything I have earned and paid for... literally and figuratively. If their new content follows some of these silly rules they plan to implement, that is fine. Taking away anything I had to work for (and pay to play) will not earn them much favor with me and surely many others.
Yep, my point exactly. It sounds like I'm going to loose over 150 points of personal fame with the civilisations, and possibly more fame with the tribes and some rite rewards as well. I really hope I've understood this wrong. It's not just that all the time spent getting that fame would go to waste. There's also the issue that if they do this, that means I can't trust anymore that they'll allow me to keep what I earn. What guarantee will I have that they won't at some point in the future introduce a change to the skill system that causes me to loose 200 levels?

[blaah]

Yep, my point exactly. It sounds like I'm going to loose over 150 points of personal fame with the civilisations, and possibly more fame with the tribes and some rite rewards as well. I really hope I've understood this wrong.
ahh, but YOU have a CHOICE whether you want to lose those hard earned fame points or not ;-)


The described changes aren't without consequences on your current fame; you will have choices to make - choose a nation and a cult, or stay neutral. To give you the time to think about it, all existing characters and guilds will be put in as special status, for both citizenship and cult: the unspecified status.

Unspecified status
A character or a guild in unspecified status is considered as neutral by the game mechanisms. While in this status, you keep your fame values unchanged and aren't subject to any cap. However, while in this state, you can't gain or loose fame. Additionally, a character can't switch to another status when his guild is also in this state.

this does not say "for now, but in future this option will be gone". so you could stay unspecified status forever.
staying out from future rites/events will be you choice again if you choose to remain in "unspecified status" ;-)

[michielb]

ahh, but YOU have a CHOICE whether you want to lose those hard earned fame points or not ;-)


this does not say "for now, but in future this option will be gone". so you could stay unspecified status forever.
staying out from future rites/events will be you choice again if you choose to remain in "unspecified status" ;-)

Thanks I needed a good laugh ;)

[sidusar]

this does not say "for now, but in future this option will be gone". so you could stay unspecified status forever.
staying out from future rites/events will be you choice again if you choose to remain in "unspecified status" ;-)
That's like offering me the choice of capping my skills at 150 or completely taking away my ability to gain levels.

[michielb]

That's like offering me the choice of capping my skills at 150 or completely taking away my ability to gain levels.

Yup or offering you the choice to either take part in PvP or miss out on all the new "content"...

[sidusar]

Yup or offering you the choice to either take part in PvP or miss out on all the new "content"...
We understand eachother ;)

[blaah]

That's like offering me the choice of capping my skills at 150 or completely taking away my ability to gain levels.
i have 2 chars with high fame. my main is 75+ in 4 races and alt is 98+ in 3 races. have not worked with tribe fames.
so, i dont like it either.

but i understand (sort of) that with storyline this change is needed (4 races divided with 2 gods, but still everybody likes everybody).
it's a year late tho.

this "choice" is just beginning, racial rites (i can dream, right ?), kami/karavan specific stuff.
you cant have it all. lets just hope that they make some of cool stuff accessible to only neutrals.

[sidusar]

but i understand (sort of) that with storyline this change is needed (4 races divided with 2 gods, but still everybody likes everybody).
it's a year late tho.
So do I. It's acceptable to me if they change the civilisation fames to reflect the increased tensions, while leaving personal fame intact (ie. becoming a Matis Citizen changes my Fyros civilisation fame to -100, or -200 for all I care). What's not acceptable to me is just like that taking away all my personal fame, that I've spent a lot of time gathering, as if it was never there.

What point is there for me gain fame, levels, items, stanzas, rite rewards, or anything that there is to gain, if they can just take it all away again upon introducing a new system?

[iphdrunk]

kami/karavan specific stuff.
you cant have it all. lets just hope that they make some of cool stuff accessible to only neutrals.

And one of my main concerns is that this opens new balance issues, specially with the duality "Magic of Nature"/"Technology", imagine now that Kami get better magic amplifiers and Karavan better pistols :rolleyes: , or new armor crafts that are plain "ugly" :p (btw, Nevrax since you had a team working on animations, could you please tweak Matisian male light armor sleeves? I've seen the drawings and the drawings are nice and stylish, but I've ye to meet a player that likes Matisian male sleeves :o )

But no worries, Nevrax has proven to be very good at balanc.. oh look, it's raining :)

[sidusar]

And one of my main concerns is that this opens new balance issues, specially with the duality "Magic of Nature"/"Technology", imagine now that Kami get better magic amplifiers and Karavan better pistols :rolleyes:
If by 'better pistols' you mean pistols with 80 meter range, then those Kami mages better beware :p

[xenofur]

I've seen the drawings and the drawings are nice and stylish, but I've ye to meet a player that likes Matisian male sleeves :o )i like them, make me look like a real tank :D http://exekutor1.ex.funpic.de/futallaby/ryzom/index.php?res=102 ;D

[blaah]

So do I. It's acceptable to me if they change the civilisation fames to reflect the increased tensions, while leaving personal fame intact (ie. becoming a Matis Citizen changes my Fyros civilisation fame to -100, or -200 for all I care). What's not acceptable to me is just like that taking away all my personal fame, that I've spent a lot of time gathering, as if it was never there.

ahh, now i get it ;-)
if you go for neutral for now, but choose to become matis citizen later, you would have 100 matis fame "waiting" from your past work.
no comment on this. hehe, it only leads to.. long thread ;-)

but:

Below 0% in the nation of your citizenship, you loose your citizenship and become neutral.

if you citizen, then you need to nuke you racial fame to become neutral ?
same with guild and cult fames.
it's gonna be interesting.

[manya]

Someone mentioned it already in this thread, but I would like to ask it again:

Will there be a more sensible system to gain/ lose fame in the future? Instead of the current way of doing the same handful of stupid missions again and again for a minimal change of fame?

[gwythion]

More Carrots Less Sticks Please.

In case Nevrax do decide to go ahead with only allowing neutral characters to join neutral guilds can you please explain what harm you think this would actually do to the game to allow all characters to join neutral guilds.

Surely it is better that if you want players to align their guilds then you do so by giving them incentives, reasons why it is a good idea, rather than just forcing them into boxes of your making. It seems like someone looked down and said, "These people are not playing the game the way we want, lets give them a slap and make them."

[philu]

"These people are not playing the game the way we want, lets give them a slap and make them."

Nail on the head....

[thlau]

Some more questions that have come to me, thinking about the effects this will have on game play, this are some of them:

At the moment we have 12 rites + the amber cube rite. Each nation provides 3 of them, once the required global fame rating from 34 to 38 with that nation is reached (If I remember corectly).
If these requirements doesn't change you will be able to accomplish all rites only if you stay neutral.
If you choose citizenship instead, you will only be able to accomplish 6 rites, that of your own nationality, and that of the allied nation.
The rewards for the current rites are hardly balanced.

So will there be new rites, that will compensate for this reduced amount of 'epic' missions, or do we have to wait for them until the end of the next year.



At the moment we have a global fame rating which determines how NPCs react on us. Civilisation + Guild + Personal = Global.
And the Global Fame caps at 100%, but we still are able to earn fame for ourselfs and our guild, once this cap is reached.

If I understand the new rules right there will be no more Global fame, and Personal and Guild Fame no longer add.
And if I earn more fame points in personal or guild fame, these points are lost.
As well as the points I loose when I switch allegiance from citizen to neutral, or the otherway round.

Example:

I'm a Tryker citizen
Tryker 100%
Matis 75%
Fyros 25%
Zorai 0%

I switch to neutral:
Tryker 50%
Matis 50%
Fyros 25%
Zorai 0%

I switch back to Tryker citzenship
Tryker 50%
Matis 50%
Fyros 25%
Zorai 0%

Do I understand this right?

[philu]

Example:

I'm a Tryker citizen
Tryker 100%
Matis 75%
Fyros 25%
Zorai 0%

I switch to neutral:
Tryker 50%
Matis 50%
Fyros 25%
Zorai 0%

I switch back to Tryker citzenship
Tryker 50%
Matis 50%
Fyros 25%
Zorai 0%

Do I understand this right?

That's a very, very good point. I guess players should think VERY carefully about the implications of a switch. That's assuming we are ever given enough information to fully understand the implications.

Assuming we EVER get our questions ANSWERED!!

[calel]

Another thing I found that doesn' t really sounds clear to me:

Newly created characters will be considered as having the state of neutrality or unspecified. They need 30% fame to be able to take a citizenship rite. However because of the neutrality/unspecified state they can' t gain or loose fame?

Tell me I read something wrong here. Is unspecified only for guilds and does that mean neutral as in stateless means you can still work on fame?

[thlau]

Another thing I found that doesn' t really sounds clear to me:

Newly created characters will be considered as having the state of neutrality or unspecified. They need 30% fame to be able to take a citizenship rite. However because of the neutrality/unspecified state they can' t gain or loose fame?

Tell me I read something wrong here. Is unspecified only for guilds and does that mean neutral as in stateless means you can still work on fame?

If I understand it correct, then you will be able to ever become neutral, if you wish it.


B] Nations: Citizenship
1) Neutrality

Neutrality is now integrated to the fame system, and is the default status for any new character created after the upgrade. At any time, a character is able to become neutral toward all nations (stateless homin).

[sprite]

Newly created characters will be considered as having the state of neutrality or unspecified.
Neutral isn't the same as unspecified - a character can only enter the "Unspecified" state if his guild goes from a race- or cult-alignment to a neutral alignment and the player is incompatible with that.

[philu]

Only existing players will start the new system as unspecified (see the last paragraph of the description). New players start as neutral.

Neutrality is now integrated to the fame system, and is the default status for any new character created after the upgrade.

Only other time a player will become unspecified is when their guild changes cult or becomes neutral, as Spriteh said, and they are incompatible with the new guild status.

[lawrence]

That's a very, very good point. I guess players should think VERY carefully about the implications of a switch. That's assuming we are ever given enough information to fully understand the implications.

Assuming we EVER get our questions ANSWERED!!


As pointed out in another thread:


@philu
Your questions are not being ignored or forgotten of course. ;) I know it sometimes seems that way when there's silence, but behind the scenes everyone's busy and working hard on pushing things forward. To give you a quick status update - We've gathered your recent fame-related questions from across the forums and we're in the process of discussing them internally among the team. Your questions & main concerns were also included with our most recent community report this week, a document that gets read by a lot of people at Nevrax.

Nevrax is fully aware of the need to address some of the community's current concerns and questions, they've been a top priority in our recent internal meetings and conferences and I'll try to keep you guys posted on any progress here.

In the meantime, please don't let that stop you from submitting new questions, i.e. through our Q&A thread: http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19117

[ajsuk]

As pointed out in another thread:

In other words they just as lost as we are.. :p

[kaetemi]

Maximum fame with -- Neutral -- 50%please put rite fame requirements higher than neutral max fame, or just don't allow rites for neutrals at all, because i don't see any reason why a neutral should be allowed to do more rites than a citizen..

Maximum fame with -- Karavan -- -50%City and camp guards have received the order to kill on sight anyone with less than -50% fame with their faction.so any karavan guard will kill a kamist on sight?
how will a fyros be able to enter fairhaven then?


where is the time that we could gain fame by killing the enemy's tribes :)

[grimjim]

please put rite fame requirements higher than neutral max fame, or just don't allow rites for neutrals at all, because i don't see any reason why a neutral should be allowed to do more rites than a citizen..

so any karavan guard will kill a kamist on sight?
how will a fyros be able to enter fairhaven then?

where is the time that we could gain fame by killing the enemy's tribes :)

I think what they mean is -50% or LOWER, not 'less than', slightly confusing mathematical language, so...

Karavan fame -100 to -50 - you get hit by karavan type guards. -49 to +100 Karavan fame, you don't.

[kaetemi]

I think what they mean is -50% or LOWER, not 'less than', slightly confusing mathematical language, so...

Karavan fame -100 to -50 - you get hit by karavan type guards. -49 to +100 Karavan fame, you don't.and the highest fame for karavan you can have when you are kami IS -50 ...

[grimjim]

and the highest fame for karavan you can have when you are kami IS -50 ...

Then you're fooked.

[kaetemi]

Then you're fooked.the max for enemy faction should be 0%, or they should lower neutral's faction fame max to 25% ;)
balancing :D

factioned have -50 and 100, this is too low as a max fame cap
neutrals have 50 and 50, they get too much here, really

[grimjim]

the max for enemy faction should be 0%, or they should lower neutral's faction fame max to 25% ;)
balancing :D

factioned have -50 and 100, this is too low as a max fame cap
neutrals have 50 and 50, they get too much here, really

Neutral can mean so many different things, that's part of the problem.

They might be a merchant supplying both sides - in which case they might be reasonably popular to do business with.

They might be a Trytonist, sabotaging both sides - who should be hated by both.

They might be more of a 'hominist' - seeking peace, again, not necessarily in trouble with either.

They might be 'agnostic', undecided on which faction to join, in which case both sides should be trying to woo them.

Its complicated and the halfway point seems a simplistic way to address the various types.

[marct]

Neutral can mean so many different things, that's part of the problem.

They might be a merchant supplying both sides - in which case they might be reasonably popular to do business with.

They might be a Trytonist, sabotaging both sides - who should be hated by both.

They might be more of a 'hominist' - seeking peace, again, not necessarily in trouble with either.

They might be 'agnostic', undecided on which faction to join, in which case both sides should be trying to woo them.

Its complicated and the halfway point seems a simplistic way to address the various types.Which is exactly why your actions, not just the missions you do should reflect highly on your fame. Granted, missions/quests should still grant you some fame.

Noin.

[gwythion]

please put rite fame requirements higher than neutral max fame, or just don't allow rites for neutrals at all, because i don't see any reason why a neutral should be allowed to do more rites than a citizen..

I fundamentally disagree. What they should do is have a variety of rites with different levels of fame required. Some rites should only be accessable to citizens of that nation, some should be accessible to the citizens of an allied nation and some to neutrals.

Apart from anything else the vast majority of the encyclopedia is about the nature of atys its creatures and environment, only a small portion is about the races and the cults.

[gwythion]

the max for enemy faction should be 0%, or they should lower neutral's faction fame max to 25% ;)
balancing :D

factioned have -50 and 100, this is too low as a max fame cap
neutrals have 50 and 50, they get too much here, really


Too much based on what? Without knowing what mission/rites or anything else requires no one can say at all what the relative merits of any particular numbers are. Based on how things are in the game right now I say I would rather have 100% fame in one race than 50% fame in 4. I would rather have one place that I can buy and sell things at a good rate rather than four at ok rates.

These citizen ratings for max fame represent war time conditions not peace time, who is to say what they will be once the war finishes and sanity returns. It has already be indicated that these figures are not for all time.

[riveit]

I am concerned about the "Neutrals can't attack during a nation or cult PvP event, but can be attacked and then counter-attack" statement. I can see this working reasonably well in a limited event area such as the EP2 ancient lands. However, if this rule is spread to PvP and FvF battles across Atys, it would make neutral second class homins and be an invitation for faction extremists to attack them without fear of reprisals. If a Neutral is attacked and killed, who can retaliate? teammates? guildmembers? Does that Neutral automatically join the opposite side (from the attacker) of the FvF conflict and so be possible to rez by that faction? If this rule is in place frequently, I see it as potentially forcing all Neutrals to put up non-PvP flags, lose any benefits from spires and behave as pacifists. However, all Neutrals are not pacifists and may have other agendas which would be frustrated.

Also does this no fire first fire rule apply for battles for spires? If so, a Neutral guild couldn't attack a spire. In a related question, can a Neutral guild control a spire and gain benefits from it for Neutrals?

[jinnear]

sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I dont have the mental strenght to read through 15 pages of going over the same arguments over and over again... especially when these arguments are provided by the same handfull of people over and over again...

To the point:

Will I get all the skillpoints back that I have "wasted" on matis HA crafting now that I wont be able to go to the trainers without getting nuked anymore?
Oh and forest harvesting seems a bit useless too now as it seems...

(an official reply would be nice) ;)

[blaah]

To the point:
Will I get all the skillpoints back that I have "wasted" on matis HA crafting now that I wont be able to go to the trainers without getting nuked anymore?
Oh and forest harvesting seems a bit useless too now as it seems...
you mean by "geting nuked" by town guards when you fame is below -50% ?
it's your choice to be below -50% fame with matis, so you should not get craft points back.

if they make so that trainers will only talk to you if you race fame is +1%, then respec is needed (if you citizen, then there is at least one race where you cant get fame to 1%)

if you mean killed by players, just turn PvP flag off when you go to matis or hire guards to protect you.

btw, if you think that some forage/craft trees are "wasted", then you should have more fun in game and stop grinding.

[riveit]

Will I get all the skillpoints back that I have "wasted" on matis HA crafting now that I wont be able to go to the trainers without getting nuked anymore?Oh and forest harvesting seems a bit useless too now as it seems...

I think that they should deploy more trainers which could be located in tribal camps. That would give more importance to tribal fame. For instance, one Matis trainer could be located in the Dryads camp in the Grove of Confusion, another could be in the Sap Slave camp, a third at the Arid Matis or the Matisian border guards, etc.. They could have trainers wandering through wilderness areas as well.

[vguerin]

I think that they should deploy more trainers which could be located in tribal camps. That would give more importance to tribal fame. For instance, one Matis trainer could be located in the Dryads camp in the Grove of Confusion, another could be in the Sap Slave camp, a third at the Arid Matis or the Matisian border guards, etc.. They could have trainers wandering through wilderness areas as well.Nice idea... I believe in a recent info thread they mentioned removing tribal fame tho.

[riveit]

Nice idea... I believe in a recent info thread they mentioned removing tribal fame tho.

As fate would have it, that is the very thread that we are providing feedback for! :D

I think personal fame with tribes will be the same. However you will not have guild fame to modify it. Here is the Nevrax statement:

"The tribes fame works the same way as the nations or cults ones, but thresholds are dependent to both the character's nationality and cult. A guild doesn't have any fame with the tribes."

I have another question about the tribal fame. Presently, getting fame with tribes causes the tribe to show up in your entire guild's fame list. Will this be the in case in the future, with guild tribal fame nullified?

[grimjim]

Q: If there's going to be a PvP flag anyway, why make neutrals unable to initiate combat? Isn't that a little redundant? If they don't want to fight, they'll have the no PvP setting on, if they DO they should be an unpredictable element, able to engage - or heal - either side at will. Wouldn't this be better for gameplay and more interesting within the zone? (as well as making mercenary type actions viable).

[jinnear]

you mean by "geting nuked" by town guards when you fame is below -50% ?
it's your choice to be below -50% fame with matis, so you should not get craft points back.

Imagine that it was somebodys choice to get -50% fame with matis before this patch was ever spoken of... wouldnt that, just maybe, put the edge off that argument? ;)

btw, if you think that some forage/craft trees are "wasted", then you should have more fun in game and stop grinding.

*sighs*
This is just silly. Did you see the quotation marks on the word "wasted"? Oops I used them again. Oh you even used them yourself... oh my, I wonder in what sense you use them? I know why I did.
You cant tell me to stop grinding... cause I dont.
I have played this game for a year and only have one character with skills over 100... and they havent even reached 150 yet.
I play to have fun.

I asked this question cause I want to know if its time to start crafting some other racial armors... something that I might be able to progress in.
I was hoping for an official reply.

*looks at blaah*
You dont look very official to me... :rolleyes:


*bows respectfully*

[blaah]

Imagine that it was somebodys choice to get -50% fame with matis before this patch was ever spoken of... wouldnt that, just maybe, put the edge off that argument? ;)

then i assume it was RP choice which would mean (assuming again) that said person would not craft matis armor anyway

I was hoping for an official reply.
you posted it to forums, therefore i assume you wanted audience ;-)
dont worry, you'll get one.. maybe in a year.

try emailing xavier@nevrax.com for quicker answer

[jinnear]

then i assume it was RP choice which would mean (assuming again) that said person would not craft matis armor anyway

Thats kinda (if you excuse the expression) narrowminded to make such an assumption.
It could easily be a case where the choice was made cause the character wants to wear the ugliest armor possible, in order to scare the enemies better.

There are as many ways of thinking and playing this game as there are players in it.
Stop assuming and stick to what you know.



(sorry if this is too off topic everyone)


*bows*

[blaah]

Thats kinda (if you excuse the expression) narrowminded to make such an assumption.
It could easily be a case where the choice was made cause the character wants to wear the ugliest armor possible, in order to scare the enemies better.

sry, i really dont understand why someone would nuke their fame (-50%) with any race and then walk in their cities as a friend (to talk trainers)

until they patch in new fame system, there is no game restriction for this, but if i take my time to nuke my fame on purpose (as you said, by own choice) then i surely dont talk to their trainers.

[kgrieve]

SoR is supposed to be a system where you can be what you want. The fame capping doesn't fit this philosophy.

Why can't we still get to 100% in any race except that its should be much harder to get fame in an opposing races.

Taking a Fyros example, for Fyros fame you get 100% for each mission. For Zorai, Tryker and Matis fames the percentage fame for doing missions is reduced.

After the game is patched, you keep your existing fame. When you switch to a race or stateless your fame gets reduced, but not capped. The reduction is dependant on your current race and what you swap to.

Mission example: For a Fyros citizen they get a percentage of the points for each mission, 100% for Fyros, 75% for Zoria, 50% for Tryker and 25% for Matis. A Neutral character gets 50% fame in every country (actual values to be determined)

Citizen examples: When a player switched to Fyros, their current fame is multiplied by the following percentages, 100% for Fyros, 75% for Zorai, 50% for Tryker and 25% for Matis. Choosing stateless 50%.

I would suggest a mathematical function for doing this, but will send that to the devs.

Note: In the formulae to the devs it will include the base fames, -20, -10, +10, +20%. It will also account for negative fames and having a race that switches to another nation. The examples are simplified for explanation.

[grimjim]

I would suggest a mathematical function for doing this, but will send that to the devs.

I think this is a much better idea. *applause*

[marct]

I was just thinking...

Can a Kami associated guild have citizenship in a Karavan Associated civilization? and Can they have their GH in the Captial, or only in one of the other cities of that civilization. Will this vary by civilisation and possibly change as lore progresses? (Maybe the Matis would not allow a Kami aassociated guild to have GH in a Maits city, although Tryker would allow such?

Noin.