Area damage useless

[mccoy3]

Hi,

I got a lev90 mage and bought that ricochet 2 effect that works great with heal 5 but is totally useless with any damage spell.
I've tried to combine it with Acid7 but the cost of 145 credits I cannot compensate in any way.
I already talked to a GM why area damage requires that much credits but he/she couldn't convince me that it's good the way it is.

See, you dont pull 7 mobs at a time that often, being able to cast only level5 acid with ricochet 2 those mobs will have a good laugh at me. I'd practically not do any damage (remember all added mobs take even less damage). Considering that the range of that spell would be quite low and the time to cast take 5 seconds.


The problem is that you cannot combine your most powerful acid with area spells (Only got Ricochet but bomb or spray won't be any different I guess). not even the 2nd most powerful acid/cold will do.

http://ryzom.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifIn fact I have to use the spells that are half my actual level on mobs that are above my actual level and that doesn't make any sense to me.http://ryzom.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif

I'd like to read your opinions on that one, maybe I'm all wrong? But I don't think so.


PS:

I already got melee to 55 just to prevent instant death when I use HP credits for spells. Point is, I don't want to have to play a melee fighter to play a useful mage

[chuangpo]

Hopefully the coming Spell system revamp in Patch 1 will address these issues, we shall see. I'd jsut sit tight with it until then, perhaps it'll get fixed to something usefull, although, as a magic user, I don't really know why I'd want to attack more than one thing at a time...:rolleyes:

[Fred1l1]

Hehe it is fun for taking down mobs of easier critters...i take down groups of lesser izam with acid 3...350xpish a pop...went def magic to 50 so i got bomb with off mag at 30 :P

Pretty good for getting dp down

[mccoy3]

Hehe it is fun for taking down mobs of easier critters...i take down groups of lesser izam with acid 3...350xpish a pop...went def magic to 50 so i got bomb with off mag at 30 :P

Pretty good for getting dp down

ya well, you're still getting exp with lev30 in off mage. But you won't kill lev100 mobs with acid3, neither with acid5. everything above on the other hand is too credit expensive.
the devs sure didn't want the mages to be terminators, but gain some more levels in your off mage tree and you'll experience that bombing gruffs, zerx or whatever with acid<7 is no fun but damn stupid.

EDIT:

As far as I have played with that area spell I'd say:
1. There have to be group boni: Extra exp for killing grouped mobs because the risk of dying is much higher.
2. Ricochet effect should increase its damage with every "jump" by 1.3 or whatever, as it's shown in the icon. the waves get bigger. It'd make sense to aggro more mobs then.
3. Ricochet 2 should at least use 50 instead of 65 credits.

Just my 2cents.

[moriant]

I think its (currently) designed that way. You can do single target spells with your best damage effect or you can do an area effect with a slightly less powerful effect. Now, saying that it was designed that way doesn't mean that I think its necessarily effective.

As you stated, the problem with area effect offensive spells is you typically don't want to go start bombing a large herd of critters. Even with your best offensive damage mixed with a bomb you still will probably need a few casts to finish off anything worth anykind of xp. Good luck getting the second bomb cast while getting beat on by the entire herd. ;) Hopefully the magic tweaks mentioned for Patch 1 will fix a bit of this.

----
Area effects and healing...

I am primarly a healer and for healing purposes the the area effects are great. I am able to use my best heals (65 standard healing) with my bomb/ricochet effects mainly because I am able to use a mix of HP and SAP credits along with range and time. I even designed a 145 credit healing spell that does bomb AND ricochet effects, but mainly just to see if I could do it ;).

The Vamprisim effect at 65 standard healing can also be mixed in with any offensive spell and can even be combined with a bomb and/or ricochet (yes, all targets you hit with bomb/ricochet get drained as per the vamp effect). The problem again comes down to having enough credits to cast these combinations (vamp 1 is a 65 credit effect).

---

So for a healer I recommend getting at LEAST the bomb effect. Purely offensive mages might want to pick it up to have it, but its unlikely you'll use it alot except to blow up very small herds for some laughs.

--Moriant

[stygeon]

It is designed that way and to be honest IMHO ... I think it should stay this way.

Yes it is the desire of a mage to be able to solo and fight effectively. Look at it from the side of a mage. He learns to start a fire ... he then learns to shoot a flame arrow ... than with enough practice he can launch a fireball. In that time I am sure he has experienced quite a few newer things.

It is a logical progression and it is a check system to add a need for some interdependcy between professions. If a mage could kill a horde above his level with his best attack edited for AOE ... not exactly balanced progression.

[mccoy3]

It is a logical progression and it is a check system to add a need for some interdependcy between professions. If a mage could kill a horde above his level with his best attack edited for AOE ... not exactly balanced progression.


You see, combined with healing area effects are pretty neat and the credits are worth the result.
I however wouldn't be able to kill a horde my own level with my highest damage spells due to the fact, as moriant stated, I'd need to spell at least several times and by then I'm dead for sure.
The problem is that in a group of people my level, with two tanks for example taunting some 2-4 mobs, I won't be able to area damage anything because the spell is too weak. Combined with a more powerful spell I cant cast it.
As a result of this I see area damage useless, because I'd be better off with area healing then.

[chuangpo]

Anyone try using Bomb with Root? Can you even? Now THAT could have some uses....

[stygeon]

Take that to a higher level though ... how about 2 or a dozen mages all pumping the same AOE into a mob in support of a dozen fighters holding the line?

This game is meant for very very large scale assaults with dozens working in conjunction with each other.

[fiadd]

Anyone try using Bomb with Root? Can you even? Now THAT could have some uses....

The area spells can only be combined with heals (hp, sap, etc) and direct damage, not with any of the link spells (root, stun, blind, fear, dots, etc).

Apparently during beta you could combined AoE with the link spells, but that was taken out in release.

[dpi209]

Anyone try using Bomb with Root? Can you even? Now THAT could have some uses....

At lvl100 you can buy double spell plans which include combining an elemental and an afflictionary spell, afaik

[arkange]

Btw, anyone has informations on the differences between bomb 1 and bomb 2? Description in game is bugged, and I'm wondering if it has any use to get it to improve my bomb heals...

regards,
Neyrelle, french community

[syneris]

Take that to a higher level though ... how about 2 or a dozen mages all pumping the same AOE into a mob in support of a dozen fighters holding the line?

This game is meant for very very large scale assaults with dozens working in conjunction with each other.

It would work for xp groups too. 9 mages all doing AoE for xp. If everyone had sapgift you'd never hurt for sap. I'm setting up my guy to be useful in those type of mage parties, because i know they will rock. Even without AoE you can setup 1-2 mages affliction, 2-3 sap/hp healing, and the other mages just blast the thing to death not having any sap worries.

[cjhsb]

Take that to a higher level though ... how about 2 or a dozen mages all pumping the same AOE into a mob in support of a dozen fighters holding the line?

This game is meant for very very large scale assaults with dozens working in conjunction with each other.
Wouldn't work I'm afraid by the looks of it. Firstly the range of the AOE is too pitifully small; secondly you'd need a tank on every mob taunting to keep aggro off the mages - 2 hits at even mid-level and thats a dead mage. Unless you had a large ratio of tanks v casters in the group, I can't see the practical application....and even then you'd be AOEing heals then anyhow as the mage.


It would work for xp groups too. 9 mages all doing AoE for xp. If everyone had sapgift you'd never hurt for sap. I'm setting up my guy to be useful in those type of mage parties, because i know they will rock. Even without AoE you can setup 1-2 mages affliction, 2-3 sap/hp healing, and the other mages just blast the thing to death not having any sap worries.
This is far more feasible. Small problem with the sapgift mages actually just wanting def healing xp, but surmountable. Afflictions are where mages shine; however being unable to AOE afflictions is annoying. The real problem here is that for a 9 group to be getting decent xp you'll be fighting critters a decent way above your party level - and after this patch your affs will have to stick to have any real affect, which will be a job to manage before the mob is tearing your group completly apart. Sadly it'll take about 15 seconds to kill everyone since noone is tanking.

The best group is a mix. There are many ways to have an effective xp group in Ryzom atm, but at the end of the day you need tanks to take/hold the aggro or your all going to die as soon as things go slightly pear-shaped.

My vote is therfore yes, AOE damage is useless for now; hope they change it soon!:mad:

[smaff2]

Wouldn't work I'm afraid by the looks of it. Firstly the range of the AOE is too pitifully small; secondly you'd need a tank on every mob taunting to keep aggro off the mages - 2 hits at even mid-level and thats a dead mage. Unless you had a large ratio of tanks v casters in the group, I can't see the practical application....and even then you'd be AOEing heals then anyhow as the mage.


Actually this isn't how it works - What you aim for is speed. Take for example that you can put say Acid5 on an AoE, and there's 6 of you. You then find a critter which takes 5-6 Acid5 DDs to die, and tends to lurk in groups (close nit ones by preference). The leader targets the one in the middle so that the AE will hit as many as possible, everyone "assists" to grab their target and then does a countdown, so that everyone launches their ACID5 AoE spell at once.

For the more paranoid, the 6th person picks the critter closer to the party than the one the others are targetting, though naturally the aim is not to hit any critter that wouldn't have already taken hits from the others. Any critters that run at you should be heavily damaged at this point and so can be tidied up with straight DDs.

You then move on to the next group of critters.

The idea is speed - Rather than killing 1 big gribbly that will earn enough exp that its worth grouping up for, you kill several slightly wimpy critters in what is (as far as each individual is concerned) one or maybe 2 casts. There's no need for warriors to taunt or any other form of crowd control as you're using the most successful status effect - they're all dead.

The down-side is, of course, the requirement that *everyone* be mature, organised and willing to be effectively part of "the machine" that is the group, oh and the leader is clear and good at identifying issues...

Oh, and it doesn't really work on social groups unless the number of those that are pulled due to proximity of damage is probably less than half the number of people in the party, since at that time you can do the buddy systerm (one holds, one nukes)

[jeffhill]

It might prove more useful at higher levels... say over 200 where the credit needed wont be so significant. It sounds like the counterpart to the AE guns used for the mass battles later on.

[beck123]

Well I find it ok, cause there has to be something for the def mages to do, and if fighting in a larger group one should work as sap healing, the others healing the fighters and the off mages sleeping / aoe / whatevering on the MOBs :)

Thats just my imho, you can hate me for it if you like :)