Crafting mechanisms?

[ramuller]

Hi, another SWG refugee here.

I am starting to look at the crafting system and am getting very confused about how mat characteristics affect product stats. There seem to be three or four types of characteristics that affect what is crafted:

Mat quality (basic, fine, etc): does this affect the characteristics of the product or just it's name?
Mat level: I think I understand that the lowest mat level places a ceiling on the level of the product.
Mat colors: what little I have seen of them has me totally confused -- it seems that mats have colors and some or all of the mats in a piece of armor affect its color, but darned if I really know what I just said.
Mat stats: each mat type has a set of stats (e.g., Durability, Lightness, Dodge Mod, DMG, etc.), which can have values between 0 and 5 (is this even right?). Some how the combination of these stats from the various mats affects the final stats of the item -- how?I don't know if I am asking people to disclose the arcane knowledge of the ages; however, after searching in various ways, I haven't found this talked about.

[tylarth]

numerical quality is the'lvl' of the item and effects the lvl variable of the item (damage for weapons, max spll lvl for amps, absorbtion max values on armour, jewel max protections)

the lowest qual mat determine the items max qual on a craft (alos reduces the stat boost by same %)

an items colour is determined by the greatest colour in all the mats used, eg if there are more green mats than others it'll be green, if equal, certain colours dominate over others

All the materials will contribute to an items end stats, the precraft is a % scale of the various strengths of a material combination. when crafted those values get translated into an items stats, each type of item has upper and lower thresholds (eg Light armor protection is 5%-25% or a one hand weapon speed is 13-39hpm), some of which are quality based too (see above)

[jamela]

Welcome to Atys, ramuller :)

Material grade (Basic, Fine, etc.) is very important, but not the answer to creating all of the very best items, believe me :) . Compare the attributes bars on Basic, Fine and Choice versions of the same material and you'll see just how much influence the grade has.

[kayak]

welcome to our rootball.
crafting is a very complex art but here are a few pointers and i hope not too many spoilers
Mat quality (basic, fine, etc): does this affect the characteristics of the product or just it's name?

each material comes in 5 grades. basic fine choice excellent and supreme. each grade has one high stat and 2 low stats and the rest in between. if you were to take an average of all the stats basic mats would be very low and supreme mats woudl be very high. the name of the final product depens on the majority of mats used


Mat level: I think I understand that the lowest mat level places a ceiling on the level of the product.

there are 2 limiting factors on the quality of the item. your crafting level and the quality of the lowest mat used the lowest one is what the final item will be (assuming no degrades). there are 2 classes of stats on the final product. quality dependant and quality independant.
dependant stats include damage on wepons and max vs stats on armour
independant includes most else eg speed of wepons and protection factor.
depending on the materials used you may or may not hit the maximum

Mat colors: what little I have seen of them has me totally confused -- it seems that mats have colors and some or all of the mats in a piece of armor affect its color, but darned if I really know what I just said.
it is only armour that has differnt colours. there are 8 (4 common 2 racial and 2 prime roots) the colour of the final prodect depends on the primary colour of the mats used.

Mat stats: each mat type has a set of stats (e.g., Durability, Lightness, Dodge Mod, DMG, etc.), which can have values between 0 and 5 (is this even right?). Some how the combination of these stats from the various mats affects the final stats of the item -- how?

this is where it gets complicated. there are 3 stages to the crafting stats process
1. all the mats are put into the window and the stats for the diff things are added together. lets say you add 5 bits of excellent oath bark to a wepon that requires 20 mats overall.. damage is maximum on oath bark so in the final product the bark adds 25% adding other mats will add the stats up in a similar way

(spoiler alert) 2. a funky and mysterious bit of maths that no one is totally sure about boosts the higher stats by an ammount. the ammount all the stats are boost by is proportional to the average stat and the amount that each stat is boosted by proportinal to the deviation from the average. say for example you wanted to make a wepon that had maximum damage and maximum speed. this woudl not be possible unless the stats were boosted in some way or if all the mats used had maximum speed and damage stats (which no mat has) the trick is to get speed and damage as high as possible while keeping the rest of the stats as close to the average as posible. hence using fine and basic mats in recipies helps to balance out the stats

3. when you hit the craft button the post crafted stats are changed in the following way:

post craft = (precraft x 0.8) +20 this is why in jamela's example light armour has a protection factor of 5%-25%. the maximum is 25% protection so if precraft you have 100% then you will hit maximum. however if you had 0% you would get: 0x0.8 +20 so 20% of 25% is 5%. mind boggling i know :D

[xeraphim]

uhmmmm..
What sash said.. :D

[nillian]

...crafting is a very complex art...etc

Awesome post my good friend :)

[ramuller]

Thank you all, it is starting to make a little more sense. I decided to experiment a bit with jewelry since there are only 2 ingredients to complicate things.

Has anyone compiled a set set of property ranges for each item showing which are level related as well as stat related? For instance, I assume that the armor protection percentage is just stat based and that the max vs ??? is both stat and level based.

[kayak]

Thank you all, it is starting to make a little more sense. I decided to experiment a bit with jewelry since there are only 2 ingredients to complicate things.

Has anyone compiled a set set of property ranges for each item showing which are level related as well as stat related? For instance, I assume that the armor protection percentage is just stat based and that the max vs ??? is both stat and level based.


well now there is a project and a half :D anyone from BM interested in teaming up and giving it a shot?

[killgore]

I understand another guild has undertaken this project. I can't remember who atm.-Kilgoretrout

[ophiucus]

This seems a good thread to ask a noobish craft-related question. Is it possible to get certain numbers up on certain items? For example, I was thinking of boosting my dodge a bit and gathered together appropriate materials for a dagger. I could dregde the dodge bar up to 75/100 on the pre-creation screen, with quality 20. Still, the dodge modifier on the final product is a nice, round zero. So, is it even possible to make a dagger with positive dodge modifier, or can I only offset negative modifers some items (like a two-handed sword) have as default?

[rushin]

This seems a good thread to ask a noobish craft-related question. Is it possible to get certain numbers up on certain items? For example, I was thinking of boosting my dodge a bit and gathered together appropriate materials for a dagger. I could dregde the dodge bar up to 75/100 on the pre-creation screen, with quality 20. Still, the dodge modifier on the final product is a nice, round zero. So, is it even possible to make a dagger with positive dodge modifier, or can I only offset negative modifers some items (like a two-handed sword) have as default?

one handed weapons dont have dodge and parry stats active. it's very very annoying but not a priority aparently, maybe in another 18 months :(

[ophiucus]

Ouch... I take that means all onehanded weapons, swords spears etc included? Thanks for the info, I'll abandon that project and try to figure how to boost light armor dodge instead (restricted to starter island materials for now).

[jamela]

Umm, dodge and parry modifiers are limited by quality level. I think it's impossible to make q50 armour with a modifier.

[ophiucus]

Yes, I've noticed that quality is a factor when the game crunches out the final numbers, that's why I mentioned quality 20 with the dagger. I just didn't realize improving equipment dodge/parry had been made THAT hard.

So if I'm reading this right, on the beginner game side it is impossible to improve your dodge and parry except by getting your skills up? Whereas using heavy armor to blunt the impact of blows is much more practical as you can improve its effectiveness in clear steps when moving through qualities 1 to 40 (which is as far as I've currently gotten).

[sehracii]

Dodge and parry mods on equipment are *not* based on the Q of the item. Whatever the min and max are on a Q10 item are the same for Q250.


Only stats that *are* dependent on Q:
melee weapon damage
ammo damage
armor max vs values

jewel "max absorbed"
(but that's not a crafted stat, it's always half the Q of the jewel)


Unlesas I'm forgetting something, ALL other stats independent of Q.



Note: Max possible boost of an item (+HP, sap, whatever) is half the Q of the item for all.

[xeraphim]

Yep dodge an parry definatley not affected by quality.
I made a q100 sword with max damage / speed and +19 adversary parry mod the other day... afaik it dont get alot better than that at 250 without a boost..

[cielchan]

Hey hey Sash, sounds alot like my theory :rolleyes:
But beware, don't spoil the fun for those who still have to discover the joy of crafting!

arc

[putterix]

Yep dodge an parry definatley not affected by quality.
I made a q100 sword with max damage / speed and +19 adversary parry mod the other day... afaik it dont get alot better than that at 250 without a boost..

agreed, crafted max dmg/speed/parry weaps q50-q100 for some newbies :)

btw, very helpful for a newbie melee to have a parry 19/20 weapon :)

[meitemax]

Not to steal the tread or anything, but I have a question that somewhat relates to this.

I have (on Silan) crafted items that hve been given the title "Fine" without having all the mats beeing "fine", most of them was "basic". Now, was what I saw either a delusion by my very tired eyes, or how many of the mats must be of higher grades (basic, fine, choice etc) in order to create such an item?

[sprite]

Now, was what I saw either a delusion by my very tired eyes, or how many of the mats must be of higher grades (basic, fine, choice etc) in order to create such an item?Kyerna has done some testing on this and I can't quite remember the results, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying that its not always the case that the majority grade gets put in the item name.

[calel]

Kyerna has done some testing on this and I can't quite remember the results, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying that its not always the case that the majority grade gets put in the item name.

*coughs* I only 'borrowed' some of what Arcueid dicussed on way way back. It basically boils down to the point where each material has a basic mathematical value; the higher the grade, the higher the value, the more dominant it is over lower grades. The same applies to colours really.

[tylarth]

the grade is a mathmatical average of the combined grades used something along the lines of: basic = 1, fine = 2, choice = 3, excellent = 4, supreme = 5.

the total of the grades used is added up the divided by the mats used, rounded up to create the end grade.

so full choice +1 excel mat, hq la boots (5 x ch 1 x ex) = excellent
same recipe of full choice with 1 fine and 1 excel = choice.

precise values are not known, but the mechanic seems to be this way

Colour is determined by the majority colour, if equal majorities there is a preset heirarchy of colours eg equal black + white = white always

the latter title is determined by the highest stat. However mq +hq and the fyros durability rite add to the item durability, so the vast majority of items of higher quals have their durability as highest stat unless poor durability materials were used in the contruction (and another stat is high-max)

[sehracii]

I'd just like to add that while there is a methematical equation of sorts for determining if the title says "fine" or "excellent" or whatever, it means very little.

For rexample, you can potentially make a weapon that comes out "choice" that is far superior to one labeled "supreme" depending on what materials were used.

On the same note, the "of" part of the title is very unreliable as well. When it works, it just means that was the highest stat on the precraft screen. "Choice dagger with dodge modifier" tells you almost nothing about the weapon, for example, because dagger dodge mod is set to 0 always and can't be changed.

It also seems many crafted items get labeled "of durability" incorrectly when that was not the highest stat.

So basically I ignore all item titles for the most part, and just look at the actual stats.