It's not a Bug, It's a Feature

[jared96]

OK, who does this when digging down in PR ?

Ya know there's a bunch of nasties running around that spot in in PR so when ya wanna go dig some "Supreme Bubble Gum" you go to that safe spot 70m away and cast for with "Supreme Only", "100 meter range" and "Gum/BubbleGum" mat spec for a few minutes / hours. You continually get wrong weather conditions messages until finally ya get a hit and it reads that there's some of the stuff at 73m. You run ovr and hopefully you get to dig some before weather changes again or some nasty comes and chases you off or eats you.

So yesterday a few minutes before season change, I run down to a spot that I needed stuff from. I have to items on my action bar which I uses to check wc (weather conditions) .... I adjust each one depending on what mat I am looking for....otherwise stanzas stay same unless I need to adjust range.

So I'm down at my favorite BubbleGum spot when season changes. And I cast tracking for Gum\Bubble for sup only (wrong weather) .... cast for exe only (wrong weather) ....rinse and repeat each time focus regens. Then I get a hit 43m on exe.....40.....35.........1m. I cast prospect for exe BubbleGum......i get wrong weather message. I cast for supreme, wrong weather; I cast for choice I get pops; I cast for exe get wrong weather; I track for exe again and I get 1 m again so tracking telling me it's still exe weather....both before and after. I walk all around 75' radius and no changes. Tracking brings me to 1m, prospect says wrong weather......try range from 0 to max, same thing. Later tracking says sup is up and I go to and dig it up. Note that I have dug exe and sup this spot many, many times and know the exact blade of grass to stand on. The only reason I even bother to sue tracking is to stay outta range of the nasties until the right weather pops.

Now I know, or at least I think I do how tracking works and the whole grid thing. I know and understand what it means when you track to a spot @ 1m and come up empty, depleted, different class etc. However there's two things that have never hapened to me in game (beta / focus beta / release):

1. I have never tracked a specific mat successfully and then been told on prospect that it was in wrong season.

2. I have never before tracked a specific mat successfully and then been told on prospect that it was in wrong season.

So I filed a ticket on 2 and CSR told me that "it's not a bug, it's working as designed". If it's working as designed, I gotta wonder how I never ran into it before.

Now, as I see it, it's either the right season or wrong season, it can't be both. It's either the right weather or the wrong weather it can't be both at the same time.

Again a "not in area", "depleted" or "empty" or another message seems feasible but to get wrong weather messages sandwiched in between right weather tracking seems to me like something outta whack. The fact that I never seen it before either means I am extremely lucky or the quirk is of recent vintage. BTW, choice and sup both worked "as designed"......or better said "as I am used to".

[ffxjosh]

Tracking, As far as i know just takes you to where the Mats are - regardless of wetaher/ season. There ARE mats there, just not right now ;)

[vguerin]

So I filed a ticket on 2 and CSR told me that "it's not a bug, it's working as designed". If it's working as designed, I gotta wonder how I never ran into it before.Definately sounds frustrating, some things like that always keep us guessing man. Can we assume your referring to SN's ?

The CSR response is classic if properly quoted... Of course everything is working as designed, working as intended or properly is another story :P

[jared96]

Tracking, As far as i know just takes you to where the Mats are - regardless of wetaher/ season. There ARE mats there, just not right now ;)

No, it doesn't. If that were true, why would tracking for Supreme Bubble Gum give message "not available in this season", "not available under these weather conditions", "not avaialable at this time" ?

If it was regardless of "weather / season", we wouldn't be getting those messages.

[jared96]

Definately sounds frustrating, some things like that always keep us guessing man. Can we assume your referring to SN's ?

The CSR response is classic if properly quoted... Of course everything is working as designed, working as intended or properly is another story :P

No, not SN's....this was in wastelands.

With as good as the crew here is, I hate to see answers that bear any resemblance to those in the "Microsoft Tech Support 101" binder. Other quirks I have seen so far:

-Only 56 mats in supreme node I camped before season changed....no didnt time out on weather, last pull gave 3 mats and next wasa focus stealer (0 mats)....still undug cabbages on surface.
-Crafter names in Info Box for boss mats (Hey Goupi can I get some more 270 Vorkoo claws - Supernovae, how about making me some more kippeeketh shells ?)

[hokipoki]

The CSR response is classic if properly quoted... Of course everything is working as designed, working as intended or properly is another story :P

I heard this one too: "Works as coded".
Priceless.

[ffxjosh]

No, it doesn't. If that were true, why would tracking for Supreme Bubble Gum give message "not available in this season", "not available under these weather conditions", "not avaialable at this time" ?

If it was regardless of "weather / season", we wouldn't be getting those messages.


we talking about tracking or prospecting?????

[blaah]

It's either the right weather or the wrong weather it can't be both at the same time.
what time of day (atys) did you prospect ? it may explain right weather / wrong weather "at the same time and weather".
you sure you didnt get "lucky" and hit it the time weather was changing ?

[jared96]

we talking about tracking or prospecting?????

Both together.

Step 1 - Track with specific mat and class (i.e. exe, sup) spec....if successful, proceed to step 2
Step 2 - Prospect with exact same mat and class spec

If step 1 says it's good weather, then step 2 shouldn'y say bad weather. It could say, gone, depleted, empty, wrong time, wrong season, but not bad weather. The existence of proper weather already established in step 1

[blaah]

Both together.

Step 1 - Track with specific mat and class (i.e. exe, sup) spec....if successful, proceed to step 2
Step 2 - Prospect with exact same mat and class spec

If step 1 says it's good weather, then step 2 shouldn'y say bad weather. It could say, gone, depleted, empty, wrong time, wrong season, but not bad weather. The existence of proper weather already established in step 1 nope, because if you time it right, weather can change between step 1 and step 2.
if you already didnt know, then 11 to 12, 2 to 3, 5 to 6, 8 to 9 (am and pm) are the times weather is changing and not constant. prospecting 11:45 (step 1) and 11:46 (step 2) can be 2 totally different weathers.

[jared96]

what time of day (atys) did you prospect ? it may explain right weather / wrong weather "at the same time and weather".
you sure you didnt get "lucky" and hit it the time weather was changing ?

If that were true, it doesn't explain the fact that tarcking said GOOD weather both before and after the bad weather prospect, repeatedly.

If ya caught all the details, did this repeatedly (same mat and class) over and over:

Step 1 - cast track and get good weather
Step 2 - cast prospect and get bad weather
Step 3 - cast track and get good weather
Step 4 - cast prospect and get bad weather

etc
etc
etc

Step 25 - cast track and get good weather
Step 26 - cast prospect and get bad weather

This was over a good 15 minute period where I repeatedly did it till track said bad weather. I switched to tracking with sup weather and got the 27m message.....Sup Prospect then worked fine. After the sup was gone, a while later found exe weather again and repeated steps 1-26 with same result. I spent a godd 2+ hours there with no change.

You don't get six skill trees to 244-250 w/o having a bit of experience doing this. After all that time digging to master both desert dig and PR dig and all those skill trees ya kinda get the hang of things. It just seems too weird that I am seeing this for the first time right after a patch, that I have never seen, no one I asked in game has ever seen it and, so far, no one on thread has experienced it.

[jared96]

nope, because if you time it right, weather can change between step 1 and step 2.
if you already didnt know, then 11 to 12, 2 to 3, 5 to 6, 8 to 9 (am and pm) are the times weather is changing and not constant. prospecting 11:45 (step 1) and 11:46 (step 2) can be 2 totally different weathers.

I don't think you read the whole post. I can see your conclusion if I only did it once but didn't you see the part about repeating over and over again ? Weather could have changed from good to bad but as I said:

1. I was camped there before season changed.
2. I was checking for good weather every few seconds.
3. If it was bad and then few seconds later I finally got it to pop good, I think we'd all agree I have, at the very least 5 minutes (again this is exe not sup) not 5 seconds for it to remain good.
4. For it to come up bad then good then bad, then good, then bad all within a 20 second or so span defies logic.

Again, in my experience, weather doesn't change from bad to good and back to bad again within a 15-20 second span. I said originally that I kept doing this over and over again. If that wasn't clear, here's the "expanded version" using your start time of say 11:46. Times are in (hour:minutes:seconds)

1. Good weather on tracking at 11:46:00
2. Bad weather on prospect at 11:46:10
3. Good weather on tracking at 11:46:15
4. Bad weather on prospect at 11:46:20

wait few secs or so for focus to regen

1. Good weather on tracking at 11:47:00
2. Bad weather on prospect at 11:47:10
3. Good weather on tracking at 11:47:15
4. Bad weather on prospect at 11:47:20

Repeat over and over again every minute or so without break for 15-18 RL minutes with good weather and bad weather alternating every 5 seconds. Then....

Good weather on tracking at 12:05:00
Bad weather on prospec at 12:05:05
Bad weather on tracking at 12:05:10 (exe weather gone)


Now hang out long enough for exe weather to appear again when tracking and repeat all of the above and get the exact same result with good and bad weather alternating every 5 seconds for another 15-18 minute span.

1. Good weather on tracking at 2:46:00
2. Bad weather on prospect at 2:46:10
3. Good weather on tracking at 2:46:15
4. Bad weather on prospect at 2:46:20

wait 40 secs or so for focus to regen

1. Good weather on tracking at 2:47:00
2. Bad weather on prospect at 2:47:10
3. Good weather on tracking at 2:47:15
4. Bad weather on prospect at 2:47:20

and so on till no good weather on tracking.

[jamela]

Perhaps your pick is faulty? I believe Pero makes very fine instruments for prospectors, try one of his.

Seriously though, does sound like something is broken. If you've been using an outpost pick, did you tried a standard one?

[blaah]

3. If it was bad and then few seconds later I finally got it to pop good, I think we'd all agree I have, at the very least 5 minutes (again this is exe not sup) not 5 seconds for it to remain good. nope, good weather dont stay "good" for at least 5 min every time. and yes, it can be "bad" after 5 sec.

4. For it to come up bad then good then bad, then good, then bad all within a 20 second or so span defies logic. no it doesn't, we dealing with Nevrax here ;-) (j/k)

Again, in my experience, weather doesn't change from bad to good and back to bad again within a 15-20 second span.

and so on till no good weather on tracking. well... if you could of explained like this in the first place...seems more fubar than it should be.

anyway... i have poped out of season/weather mats before (once or twice on whole dig career) not a big deal.
go back to that spot and try to reproduce the bug, try to reproduce the bug in new spot with other mats than BubbleGum. if you cant, just forget about it, it's not worth the trouble (like most things in Atys).

btw, good luck on prospecting every 10 atys seconds as 1 atys min only lasts around 3 rl seconds ;-). and yes, i was using atys time/min.

[akicks]

No, it doesn't. If that were true, why would tracking for Supreme Bubble Gum give message "not available in this season", "not available under these weather conditions", "not avaialable at this time" ?

If it was regardless of "weather / season", we wouldn't be getting those messages.

When you started tracking, it was available.

When you prospected it wasn't.

There is a time delay between you starting your tracking action and running to the spot. In this time anything can happen. The weather can change again, the time of day can change. etc etc

[d29565]

...This is why I dig choice mats and hunt for sup mats.

[targosz]

Geez ..this starting to be a real paranoia...newbies criticize game or oldies for their lack of knowledge! FFS mate- try to understand the game mechanics and learn how to forage and if you too impatient ask one of masters foragers for tips they will happily help u - but never ever moan about things u don't have thesmallest clue!

[praha]

This and countless number of issues were a biproduct of how Nevrax operated. Usually it happens like this:

1.) They would do patches and not fully relase all the changes in that patch like other gaming companies would (nerf or not it would still be nice to know)

Or

2.) Nevrax would just do phantom server side patches and not tell the CSR's or devs of the new changes (or if we are lucky maybe the higer ups in Jolt would find out and the info would trickle down as bug reports would come in).

I don't know why Nevrax enjoyed making themselves look like they did less work than they did by not being as transparent with their patch notes. Not all nerfs are bad if the game is more balanced in the end. It's really just more frustrating in the end if you wasted hrs trying to figure out stuff just to find out another covert patch occured. I don't think you PR dig issues are a biproduct of this. Mainland Jungle in the Mull can be just as annoying at lower lvls (due to lack of skills) with bizzare weather messages on choice mats in a LvL 200 zone and other oddities.

[jamela]

Don't you just hate it when people reply to your posts, and even criticize you, when they very obviously haven't bothered to read and understand what you say?

On topic, jared could you just confirm that the prospection action you were using to pop the source only covered a very small area? Like 10m radius, 90 degree angle, or smaller? A larger area may well overlap nodes other than the one your tracking action brought you to.

Edit: I see that you did try no range as well.

[apziro]

So I'm down at my favorite BubbleGum spot when season changes. And I cast tracking for Gum\Bubble for sup only (wrong weather) .... cast for exe only (wrong weather) ....rinse and repeat each time focus regens. Then I get a hit 43m on exe.....40.....35.........1m. I cast prospect for exe BubbleGum......i get wrong weather message. I cast for supreme, wrong weather; I cast for choice I get pops; I cast for exe get wrong weather; I track for exe again and I get 1 m again so tracking telling me it's still exe weather....both before and after. I walk all around 75' radius and no changes. Tracking brings me to 1m, prospect says wrong weather......try range from 0 to max, same thing. Later tracking says sup is up and I go to and dig it up. Note that I have dug exe and sup this spot many, many times and know the exact blade of grass to stand on. The only reason I even bother to sue tracking is to stay outta range of the nasties until the right weather pops.

Could it be that a different node of exc BubbleGum requiring different weather/season conditions at a location you're not aware of is part of the same deposit? That would lead you to the deposit, promising right conditions, and you end up trying to prospect a different source than what actually triggered your track.

[cygnus]

PR, love it and hate it so much at times :) Mastered it twice now on dif servers and the weather is ALWAYS a pain.

In my experience, tracking is pretty much a waste of time in pr because of how small the window is for weather conditions and leads to more frustration than its worth. It doesnt take long to find out where the spots are anyway or you can use a website like ryzom.raum for locations.

On a new spot or for a different season I always propsect sup only, excel only then choice only. This then gives me the info for whats available in that particular season. Be wary of choice tho as some only pop choice with excel and/or supreme. After that, unless I specifcally want supreme, I use an up to supreme prospect with knowledge 3.

A few points to remember, it takes longer than a season for a spot to regen supreme/excel mats so if someone dug 10 supreme mats in Autumn and you dig it in Winter there will only be 62 available. If someone dug it all, just because you are on the spot at season change wont mean its instantly available. Server reboots cause all spots to reset and is optimum time to dig.

Prospecting with mat spec (eg bark, fibre etc) seems to give more precise information when the spot has already been emptied, prospecting without it often just gives the no mats here message as opposed to saying they were there and have been dug.

Using a choice only prospect will often get you a pop even if the supreme/excel has been dug. These are the best spots to dig just for levels as you can pretty much continually dig regardless of the weather.

Weather change occurs during the 3rd hour so from 00hrs to 02 hrs you wont get any different pops, from 02-03 I would prospect for sup only and if no pop I sit regen focus from the prospect then stand and prospect again. This continues until 03 hrs and if I dont get a hit then its a case of sit and wait again, repeating the process between 05-06 hrs. (applicable when I only want supremes)

Often you get a supreme pop, dig the first source and then prospect again and already the weather has changed, other times it stays as supreme for ages so you rush around like a madman as the other spots nearby are usually linked and pop at the same time.

I've waited over 8 hrs on a spot before waiting for it to pop, other times its popped as soon as I got there. To me its just how pr works and must be one of the reasons I love it :) add into that the <insert.aggresive.mob.name.here> who will happily munch on you while you wait, the herb pop that gets all the aggro running around, invariably just as the source you have been sat on for hours pops supreme and one of my all time favourites is blowing yourself up on the first dig trying to squeeze one extra mat out ;)

Yes, I love pr, could just do with the Patrols back in to lend it that lil bit of extra spice................

[moyaku]

What Snaky said. :D

Basically what you need to know about weather in PR is only the time table.

time period in PR : (IG time)

00 to 02 (first time period of an SoR day)
03 to 05
06 to 08
09 to 11
12 to 14
15 to 17
18 to 20
21 to 23

Each of these last 9 minutes (RL time), and weather changes 8.30 minutes (RL time) after the beginning of each period.

Since Sup and Exe mats only pop in certain season and weather, you got to get to know the spots and their sup/exe behaviours (season/weather for each of them). Tracking for sup/exe in PR is useless as every single spot provides exe or sup every once in a while ; So just check the spots you marked and add season weather to your landmarks for sup exe once you get some out of luck. (one spot can be sup/exe enabled in more than one season)

[raisrev1]

There is one thing that I dont know if anyone noticed from the first post. The O.P. stated that while standing on the spot he did a Track for excel mats and came up with the within 1m message. Now this is important in that Tracking does tell you if something is in season/weather/time. He then states that he imediatly then went and prospected for that very same grade of mats he was tracking and it said wrong weather.

Now I too have seen the weather change that fast, however, He also states he did that repeatedly in a row, and got the same results. That is the issue he is talking about. I have never seen it behave that way. (hasnt gone and dug PR thou since before the recent resets)

The only other explanation I could see besides a possible bug on that deposit... You the O.P. (original poster for those not familiar) you absolutly certain the tracking action was Excel only and not Upto Excel? :confused: (fairly certain its not a mission mat issue as they dont come up as excel mats in Wastelands, they come up as Supremes)

[jamela]

Exactly, over a period of more than 2 hours (RL). I've never seen that. Sounds like something is broken.

[jared96]

There is one thing that I dont know if anyone noticed from the first post. The O.P. stated that while standing on the spot he did a Track for excel mats and came up with the within 1m message. Now this is important in that Tracking does tell you if something is in season/weather/time. He then states that he imediatly then went and prospected for that very same grade of mats he was tracking and it said wrong weather.

Exactly.....musta been a bug tho as after rollback all is right with the world again. And yes, no changes were made to stanzas but now its working as designed.....well at least a we are all used to.

[jared96]

Since Sup and Exe mats only pop in certain season and weather, you got to get to know the spots and their sup/exe behaviours (season/weather for each of them). Tracking for sup/exe in PR is useless as every single spot provides exe or sup every once in a while ; So just check the spots you marked and add season weather to your landmarks for sup exe once you get some out of luck. (one spot can be sup/exe enabled in more than one season)

Agree with almost all of what you said...except the bold / underline part. I have all my regular craft mats marked and have a table of seasonal availability so that not an issue. I do find tracking of immense value.

I still track for sups even when I know exactly the season and what blade of grass I need to stand on. For example, Silverweed sap spot in US where Raj roams. It's a hard spot to camp while sitting right on the spot because of Raj and all the other aggro. Certainly not an afk area.

Basically I just stand at safe spot wall within 150m of Silverweed Sap where nothin bothers me and use tracking for Supreme Sap (generic) at 200m. There are no additional sap deposits within 200m so if you get a hit, the only thing that can be up is Supreme Silverweed Sap. Once it's up, I run in between the jugs, vorax and kipucka and try and steal the sup mats before Raj comes by and eats me. In my experience, I have never gotten a hit on sup / specific mat tracking and not found the material when I prospected it.

I use this technique at just about every place I dig and would find digging much, much harder without it. Well at least I'd have much, much more DP w/o it.

[jared96]

When you started tracking, it was available.

When you prospected it wasn't.

There is a time delay between you starting your tracking action and running to the spot. In this time anything can happen. The weather can change again, the time of day can change. etc etc

No - Weather doesnt change repeatedly everry five seconds for an entire 20 minutes. You read the first half of the statement and not the rest.

No - there was no running to spot I was standing on it the whole time.

No - as others have said, weather changes occur on a schedule based upon 3 hour (atys time) - 9 minute RL time intervals.

This can happen:

Track - good weather
Prospect 5 seconda later - bad weather

This can not happen:

Track - good weather
Prospect 5 seconda later - bad weather
Track 5 seconds later - good weather
Prospect 5 seconda later - bad weather
Track 5 seconds later - good weather
Prospect 5 seconda later - bad weather
Track 5 seconds later - good weather
Prospect 5 seconda later - bad weather
Track 5 seconds later - good weather
Prospect 5 seconda later - bad weather
....repated 58 times within 9 minute period with identical results.

[jared96]

Geez ..this starting to be a real paranoia...newbies criticize game or oldies for their lack of knowledge! FFS mate- try to understand the game mechanics and learn how to forage and if you too impatient ask one of masters foragers for tips they will happily help u - but never ever moan about things u don't have thesmallest clue!

Er Ciri....

After 3 years in game (Beta / Focus Beta / Final Beta / Retail), and this being my 6th toon, I don't think I qualify as a noob. Especially not with current toon being Master Desert Forager, Master PR Forager and Master Heavy Armorer (and not just 1 skill).

And if ya notice, there's quite a few other masters agreeing with me, and now, so is CSR staff....seems original CSR was "misinformed". And finally, working as advertised again since rollback.

[jared96]

Don't you just hate it when people reply to your posts, and even criticize you, when they very obviously haven't bothered to read and understand what you say?

Yeah well, that's not uncommon. Since when is it necessary to get all the facts or attempt to understand them before forming an opinion.....just look at our politicians ! That's their stock and trade.....that's it, musta been that I had PMD's .... Picks of Mass Destruction !

But I'm used to it .... I get that a lot from my wife too....tho she starts her criticism before I even finish the sentence. :)

Interesting how being able to craft 250 items in six skill trees and mastering two dig regions (including PR) not to mention a few other master titles in melee and magic still qualifies me as a n00b.

On topic, jared could you just confirm that the prospection action you were using to pop the source only covered a very small area? Like 10m radius, 90 degree angle, or smaller? A larger area may well overlap nodes other than the one your tracking action brought you to.

Edit: I see that you did try no range as well.

Yes.....it was small....nevr use more than 1 usually tho will rtya 2 if I come up dry. I have dug this spot countless times and it's a pretty easy spot to dig even tho there's been a slight deposit shift again. I know both pre-shift and post-shifts spots well tho. I have used the same technique many, many times without issue. In fact I used it to suck the sups up in the same session.

Also note that I did go back there last nite and sucked all the exe out using the exact same stanzas, in the exact same order and standing in the exact same spot. I did confirm in speaking with a GM finally that it's not right and he indicated that original CSR may have misunderstood me. In any case, post rollback, it's working just fine. Now when ya track for exe and it gives you an number, ya can prospect for it and it pops.