love and war

[dakhound]

Now it looks like atys will once again be populated by the great community we have (and nexus) I was wondering generally about the good ol atys politics.

As we know when we left off the Karavan had suffered massive losses to the kami, the pendulum had well and truly taken a big swing. Now win or lose I like a good ol war as you might have noticed but outposts had stagnated near to the end especially with the total lack of new players.

My question being really and not even in my usual flaming way. Where do you think we go from here?, what are your predictions? will there even be good ol cut throat politics anymore?

edit: come on, we all know the political player led politics are the thing that makes this game so damn good, otherwise we'd be bored crapless killing najab for your 10th master with a staff and pretending its for a reason.

[aude03]

what are your predictions?

neXus will attack more kara ops for global domination.



except that, and after the several hours of univers big hug to everyone, i really dont know how the life will restart on Atys... will really depend of "who will be back" i presume.
Lots of things can change on the first days, especially if one faction is more numerous than the other....then welcome back to the last days of atys...the best/good/bad/worst days on Atys....
Maybe the best solution is a big rez, back to refugee, ops back to marauders ?

[sidusar]

I suppose it all depends on which players will return, and how many new players will we get as a result of the fantastic advertising campaign that the new owners have no doubt planned. :)

Personally I was so looking forward to a Kami-dominated era when the servers suddenly shut down, I hope things will continue just as they were. For a little while at least, then I hope they'll revamp outposts already. :p

[komissar]

It will surely be hugging all round for the first couple of weeks at least :)
And then... It will all depend on whether we have to start anew or not? whether they will do a server merge or not?

I guess there'll be point in discussing it all once we get there... not before.

[zarozina]

The Swim Team will take every single Q50 OP and effectively cripple the entire population who depend so greatly on their output. YOU VILL ALL BOW DOWN TO US! ZE VORLD VILL BE OURZ!!! RESISTINS AM FEWTOILE!!!

*cough* sorry .. dunno vhat got into me there

[arfindel]

while a server merge might be beneficial in terms of population (by the way that was one reason why Ryzom constantly hemorraged players, there were too few people to group with and a percentage of players after some attempts to find mates to play with left game), it doesn't seem this is the intention now, or so I guess from the fact that all forums are up (except for the french domain problem).

However OPs without the cats would mild the competition while people would still fight for them and have fun for the mats and for the glory.

On the other hand I'd prefer to start from 0 and recreate our world, rather than try to live with the histroy of lag wars of the past, plus the long kara domination of the other year. OPs with cats are too easily debalancing the game. OPs as pvp are fun though.

Whatever will be we can work together to have fun if we all want it I believe :)

[amisja]

I hope theres some new features...we've all had the chance to form new alliances and new friends in other games..I want to come back because my heart belongs to Atys but what will there be to bring me back
Jayney

[gcaldani]

I think first or later the OP war, in some way will restart, because it was the endgame. Personally i never got any personal feeling in the war, I just did it as part of the Atys life and I always got a lot of fun, losing or winning.

It also depends if Ryzom will restart with 3 servers or not. If owners wanna start only with one (i think the english lang), considering there is not a char wipe, then they must reset op and give all of them to marauders, no other options are available imho.

[komissar]

Now That will truly be a lot of fun Gilga :D
Some politics w'd be able to have in that case :) + real interpreters :)

But if they do merge servers i don't think they will merge all three - most likely they'll leave the french one intact.

Personally i have absolutely nothing against a merge with the German folks - imho the more - the merrier...

But if we look into more distant perspectives It'd be wiser to have 2 international servers: One for tree-huggers and RPers with no cats on OPs and no spires. Second one for hardcore PvP :) with spires and cat-producing OPS

This way players could have alts on different servers and have more of an endgame developing their "other char" anew + still be able to retreat somwhere from intense PvP...

[zarozina]

Personally I gotta disagree with you there Komi - not saying you're wrong, but I LIKE the mix we had on the servers - each server having it's own gangs of RPers, PvPers, etc etc. Mde it more "real" IMO. Just like in RL we have warmongerers, dreamers, GCL/CND tree-huggers etc. Imagine if RL had "different servers" for each group of like-minded folk! OK, in some ways that might be a good idea, lol, but from an IG perspective I think I would find it less stimulating. I may not hang out with the hardcore PvP or RP crowd, but I like it that they are THERE, and dipping into their worlds from time to time keeeps things interesting.

As for server merges; unless the owners have a lot of capital to invest in Advertising, etc, I think trimming down to just one or two servers is inevitible and probably (at least in the short term) desireable, so that newcommers see a well populated and vigorous world to play in, as opposed to 3 empty servers. Hmm, this should be in the other thread really, but there ya go. Soz. :D

RISISTINS AM FEWTOILE!

[iceaxe68]

Predictions are pretty chancy when we don't know yet what the context will be. IF things are simply turned back on the way they were:

I think there will be some painful reorganizing done by the poor downtrodden Karas.

Nexus will continue to be a pain in Jena's rear for a while.

I will finally actually master something. But I'll still suck at PvP.

Pero will still be AFK.

The hugest ego on Atys will return full force.

Red will come back and still be better than the aforementioned egotist.

Ffi will sweem.

Syg will be blue.

Babs will return to uni, and be muted forthwith.

That guard NPC dude in Yrkanis will continue to pace mindlessly around in a circle.

Yubos will urinate on your leg.

And I will run about spamming tacklehugs.

(EDIT: And I still won't use cats.)

[whiterider]

My prediction is that all homins will take to fighting OP battles naked, thereby completely unbalancing the system and making everything so much more fun. :D
RISISTINS AM FEWTOILE!

[rajron]

My prediction is that all homins will take to fighting OP battles naked, thereby completely unbalancing the system and making everything so much more fun. :D

Now THAT sounds fun!!

Wait - I can still use amps, right??

[zarozina]

Yay for nekkid Thweeming! And no, you can't use amps, only oven gloves or chop-sticks ;P

*gets excited at the thought of muting Babaar all over again*

[bgraz]

Now it looks like atys will once again be populated by the great community we have (and nexus) I was wondering generally about the good ol atys politics.

As we know when we left off the Karavan had suffered massive losses to the kami, the pendulum had well and truly taken a big swing. Now win or lose I like a good ol war as you might have noticed but outposts had stagnated near to the end especially with the total lack of new players.

My question being really and not even in my usual flaming way. Where do you think we go from here?, what are your predictions? will there even be good ol cut throat politics anymore?

edit: come on, we all know the political player led politics are the thing that makes this game so damn good, otherwise we'd be bored crapless killing najab for your 10th master with a staff and pretending its for a reason.
hey man, I'm counting up the days untill we can get back to it. I'll be happy to fight with you , say some nasty things and all that crap if you promise to get good and drunked up and laugh with me when we done;)

Brock

[vrixy]

The Swim Team will take every single Q50 OP and effectively cripple the entire population who depend so greatly on their output. YOU VILL ALL BOW DOWN TO US! ZE VORLD VILL BE OURZ!!! RESISTINS AM FEWTOILE!!!

*cough* sorry .. dunno vhat got into me there

Ffii did you get into my bottle ? and wheres my yo-yo ?

[zarozina]

Vhat am I now? A genie? And no i never touched yo yo-yo, yo!

[tigrus]

Predictions are pretty chancy when we don't know yet what the context will be. IF things are simply turned back on the way they were:

I think there will be some painful reorganizing done by the poor downtrodden Karas.

Nexus will continue to be a pain in Jena's rear for a while.

I will finally actually master something. But I'll still suck at PvP.

Pero will still be AFK.

The hugest ego on Atys will return full force. This is me right? - SunCe -

Red will come back and still be better than the aforementioned egotist.
Whatever your smoking Sasi, Pass some this way, I had more masters then Red, and I kicked my brothers ass any day xD

Ffi will sweem.

Syg will be blue.

Babs will return to uni, and be muted forthwith.

That guard NPC dude in Yrkanis will continue to pace mindlessly around in a circle.

Yubos will urinate on your leg.

And I will run about spamming tacklehugs.

(EDIT: And I still won't use cats.)



Fixed, and please refraid from blasphemy from now on.

[kalindra]

I'm sure Red agrees with her. :p

*hugs* :D

[d29565]

I really wish I could just reach out and huggle you guys. Erm, most of you guys :). Mostly excluding Sunce. Arrogance doesn't deserve huggles, eva!

*Tries to remember what the topic was* As yes, quote boxes...

Where do you think we go from here?, what are your predictions? will there even be good ol cut throat politics anymore?

I left the game a little before the "end" (due to lack of internet access at my uni), but I think it maybe a good idea to "restart" the end content at the very least.

I know someone (to lazy to look) suggested going back to the beginning. That is probably the best idea. But, while I want to come back sooo bad, I definitely am not in high school anymore and can't level up as fast. And I dont have my Fasinus atm. *cries*

But I loved the politics, while in game. But I know some people took it a little to far. Seriously, some "karavan" members wouldn't even guild with me on WoW (after Ryzom). *pout* (I'm mad that still hurts my feelings).

I predict that some people wont be able to let go of old feelings, while some people will just be happy to play with old friends. (Cause most of us were friends before the "faction" divide).

And I'm rambling 'cause I'm happy to write on a familiar coloured forum again!

*GLOMPS surrounding Atysians*

[rajron]

But I loved the politics, while in game. But I know some people took it a little to far. Seriously, some "karavan" members wouldn't even guild with me on WoW (after Ryzom). *pout* (I'm mad that still hurts my feelings).


Ouch... Sad thing is I spend half my time in w0w trying to FIND fellow homins;P
Haven't yet - but I DO get the occasional /w from someone who wants to know what Ryzom is... so I have this nice little list of people to notify when the yubos wake up;)

[iceaxe68]

But I know some people took it a little to far. Seriously, some "karavan" members wouldn't even guild with me on WoW (after Ryzom). *pout* (I'm mad that still hurts my feelings).

That's seriously nuts. Losers.






Fixed, and please refraid from blasphemy from now on.


Did anyone mention quantity of masters or kicking of posteriors? I just said "better".

:p


(Truthfully, I never got to meet Red except very briefly here in the forums. He seems like a pretty cool guy, though.)

[iceaxe68]

EDIT: double post, woops.

[dakhound]

tis so odd after 6 months of the game being down some people finally "get it" :D

war is fun not personal

[whiterider]

Aww, see Sunce isn't all bad. The "This is me, right?" made me giggle ;)

[akovylin]

I'd prefer to have no wipe, what about end game - it would better if its harder to defend the more ops faction has :)

[elthunim]

There's been a few interesting digressions in this thread.

And most of all, the question as to whether there should be a wipe or not.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a wipe and even wish for it. But that may be because 1. I didn't know the beta days and am curious as to how it feels to have all start off from a clean slate, with everything to be built from scratch, 2. we had a blast in Les Bannis on Aniro because we were all more or less the same levels and had to share quite a bit more than usual, and 3. I think uberness is overrated.

However, a wipe leads to a number of issues, starting with old-timers, overachievers and packrats, who can legitimately cringe at the prospect of "losing" up to three years of grinding, and also a status that they feel they had to work hard for (I imagine losing jewelry masters and starting over might be a tad discouraging, all those clicks...). And, of course, the need for historical consistency and end-game.

Yet, behind the original question of this thread lies an undercurrent issue: when Atys lives again, is it just back to business as usual?

So here's my thinking...

Short of a full-scale wipe (levels back to 1, guilds dissolved, OPs without owners, etc.), there's one thing in particular that I believe would liven up gameplay quite a bit, and change some habits: move the mats around at random, for example once or twice in an Atys year. The Q50 areas should be left as they are for convenience, but all others would see significant location changes. Seasonal characteristics should not be altered, but the location, radius and resource size could be made to change (by random number generator, so there's no gripe about manual changes putting such and such at a disadvantage). Ease of access of certain, better mats depending on Faction regions should be honored, for consistency.

This would have a few side effects:

Make the maps obsolete, break the routine (go to favorite spot, dig usual mats, grind, repeat).
Make tracking a true skill, with medium-to-large expeditions (made up of both miners and protectors) necessary to scout for and extract vital and rare supplies.
Increase competition between mining teams and put at an advantage the guild(s) that find out the new locations before others.
Make the prices of notable items skyrocket.
Keep Homins on their toes, since the change could come at any time, and involve setting up emergency teams when the event occurs, if there's a need for this or that type of mat.

This is borderline off-topic, since this change would require altering server-side data, and is therefore more a feature suggestion than an intra-homin discussion. But I think this is a reasonably tiny change for developers to make (possibly even only a location / amount / radius change) that would have an impact on homin habits, and add scouting to the scope of our activities.

In the same line of thought, changing the paths of critters every 5 years or so might be welcome too, so we don't always hang out at the same spot every season for long periods of time, and have to look for the usual critters every now and then...

Yubo. Atys isn't even back up yet and here I am already, building it my own way...

*hides*

[komissar]

Very good idea Hekla :) I'd say go for it :)

[iceaxe68]

I think Hekla had a great idea. :)

That would be fun.


I'm eager to see what improvements our new overlords make. Starting with communication. (hint, hint)

[zarozina]

move the mats around at random, for example once or twice in an Atys year. Lol, that would be fun. Immensly anoying, but fun :D

[whiterider]

Maybe less frequently than once per Atysian year... but yes, excellent idea :D

[raisrev1]

But I loved the politics, while in game. But I know some people took it a little to far. Seriously, some "karavan" members wouldn't even guild with me on WoW (after Ryzom). *pout* (I'm mad that still hurts my feelings).

Friggin losers....*refrains from further comment on their stupidity*


I predict that some people wont be able to let go of old feelings, while some people will just be happy to play with old friends. (Cause most of us were friends before the "faction" divide).

Hear hear!


*on topic*

Its really hard to say. It will all depend on what the new owners decide to do. While yes I will cringe at restarting, Im not totally opposed to it. That said, either which way it goes I will be making an attemt at Rebuilding the Dragons of Shadow.

May the Shadow watch over you....

[danolt]

Hmmm, predictions. If there is a character wipe and outposts are kept in game, I am fairly certain there would be very little roleplay based presence in the OP wars. The more lore based guilds could/would not compete with the botters and 24/7 power level guilds. I think it would quickly become another Cho. In a couple months the terms Karavan and Kami would have even less meaning then Shirts or Skins.

If there is a wipe and the OP’s are removed, a total reset to the storyline. I really hope that race would become much more important, possibly even overshadowing faction.

If the game comes back as is, I suspect the politics will be pretty much unchanged. Meaning, flames aren’t going anywhere.

In fact, they have already started.

[akovylin]

I'd prefer factions, races, tribes, bandits and kitins as real powers in Atys world and homins/guilds working on them on their behalf (except kitins) :D

And random resources spots are sweet sweet sweet - makes sence of prospection then :) still can find easy digging for grind levels but need to work realy to get special mats for precise recipes

P.S. and no wipe :D

[amisja]

Ouch... Sad thing is I spend half my time in w0w trying to FIND fellow homins;P
Haven't yet - but I DO get the occasional /w from someone who wants to know what Ryzom is... so I have this nice little list of people to notify when the yubos wake up;)
I have met up with a few old Ryzom players in LOTRO (Denvee was in my kin)
Still spreading the word.
Jayney xxx

[wardone]

intersting thread jacko ya wacko :p

will all depend on number of old players returning i guess

if its a restart then i will play as karavan (you heard it here first!)
but if its carry on where we left off then i will stay kami and carry on the good fight for sure.

[xl2i5]

ive thought about this for entirely too long...in conclusion...i dont think it matters what happens.. does it? we will have ryzom back and that is the important thing..

i have learned a lot going through the last days of gameforge ryzom. so many people showed such devotion and love for this game. i have made so many friends kami and karavan a like, on english, german, french servers.. didnt matter who you were or what you were about.... there were no boundaries at such a time... i think thats something important to remember.. the boundaries in this game are made by us.. as long as we all are in the game playing.. if we wipe or press "power-on" things will happen the way they do.. jerks will be jerks.. nice people will still help you.. and of course ill still hump you while your AFK.

[zarozina]

hear hear!

... apart from the afk humping bit ... eww! *makes mental note to always go afk seated*

[dakhound]

better not be a damn wipe

screw the levels, do you people even understand what it takes to get my gear :P

[maccer16]

better not be a damn wipe

screw the levels, do you people even understand what it takes to get my gear :P
lol yes i do late nights early mornings and alot of time killing boss`s

[iceaxe68]

hear hear!

... apart from the afk humping bit ... eww! *makes mental note to always go afk seated*


Won't matter much, Jez is a very short Tryker.


better not be a damn wipe

screw the levels, do you people even understand what it takes to get my gear :P

Wouldn't be too happy about that myself, but I'd gladly help you earn it all back, Jack.

(I sure hope Sehracii would re-open the MA emporium...)

[xl2i5]

SASIROO!@$@!# I MISS YOU!

my crackberry died.. no msn for now..hopefully ill be back tomorrow.. *crosses fingers*

[zarozina]

Won't matter much, Jez is a very short Tryker.

EEK! (etc, for length)

[d29565]

better not be a damn wipe

screw the levels, do you people even understand what it takes to get my gear :P

OMG, i'm now officially having a freak out. I could care less about my armor, but to lose my "Fasi Jools" *Cries a little inside at the idea*

[stijn]

if its a restart then i will play as karavan (you heard it here first!)


No you won't! :p

[arfindel]

but we have fasi himself and to me he looks pretty eager to grind his 5th master jewels title isn't he :)

[stijn]

Who's Fasi....? :p

[tigrus]

Snap... if i lost all mah gear i'd cry :(

[kalindra]

And you'd have me to help you get it back. ;)

Squishy me will still be healing at OP fights just for kicks. :D

[aude03]

Snap... if i lost all mah gear i'd cry :(

dont cry.... considering that the first time will be full of friendship and happiness, i think lots of people will be happy to help you collect the mats for the same gear.....messakan is not that hard :p :p :p

[d29565]

dont cry.... considering that the first time will be full of friendship and happiness, i think lots of people will be happy to help you collect the mats for the same gear.....messakan is not that hard :p :p :p

Lol, i've always wanted to take out that bodoc boss, Bodokin or something like that...

*edit* I just noticed I finally have over 1000 posts. Coolness. I didn't think i would ever have that many posts on a forum

[dakhound]

dunno genia, I once borrowed him some ragukin bones and got him some gibbaikya jewels so he probs has *some* stuffs.

[vim79]

^^ when did the season change!!!! Are the supernodes empty?? !!!!!! :)

[whiterider]

Ack, now you people have me worrying about a wipe. *clutches her beloved MA and LA, crafted for her by a friend who left the game :(*

[5c0rp]

you know replacing gear isnt the problem, mastering melee, magic or dig isnt a problem either, but mastering HA again would be something I wouldnt look foward too, im sure joolers would say the same :)

[zarozina]

Ditto MA, not that I ever did :S So near, and yet so far :(

[xl2i5]

wipe = new purpose for doing a lot of old things.

im going for 250lvl daggers.. and that will take about 10 years at the rate i play.. long term goal :)

[xl2i5]

but ya.. *hugs* to those who would lose a lot of important items.. no doubt friends would help you get them back.

wow.. just sitting here thinking about my skill tree.. which wasnt even close to being half way... . . . the time.. . . ya.. sigh.

*hides in the corner*

[jaberwoky]

I been reading all these posts and ...I dunno what half the acronyms mean, like OPS and cats and and and ..well sorry just call me newb :D

[jaberwoky]

and I suk at posting stuff...I can never think of anything at all to write, like I was reading some stuff on another forum a few days ago....................

oh wait, I just been writing stuff..DOH !!:D

[sidusar]

I been reading all these posts and ...I dunno what half the acronyms mean, like OPS and cats and and and ..well sorry just call me newb :D

Hmmm, do we have an acronyms list? If not I should make one, it's a pretty vital part of newbie introduction guides....

[d29565]

Hmmm, do we have an acronyms list? If not I should make one, it's a pretty vital part of newbie introduction guides....

not that I recall. Might have been one made before I started playing or after I left though...

If there was one made before I started, i'm sure it could use some updating :)

[wardone]

eepp
losing pvp jewel set and boosted maga amps would not be fun.
losing the gear would be worse than the levels i think.

on restart make one of the npc drop uber LA
mages need some armour lovin too!!

[murmadog]

new quest on Ruin of Silan: kill 100 baby yubo and take a present - new uber LA for mages!!! :)

ps: and place spot of baby yubos on arenas free PvP territory, near village... :D

[dakhound]

on restart make one of the npc drop uber LA
mages need some armour lovin too!!

total waste, would run out of durability in a few days (well at least my LA's do)

[katriell]

NPC medium and light armours already exist, they just aren't yet set up to have crafting plan fragments drop.

[jaberwoky]

Hmmm, do we have an acronyms list? If not I should make one, it's a pretty vital part of newbie introduction guides....

Now! .... I would really love to have me one of those, been learning a heck of a lot of internet "jargon", still not as well versed as you guys, but getting there but seriously it would be good, like you know eg: afk, brb, bbl, those are general types, though the ones I seen you guys use..... well I been trying to put words to them but I may have gotten some totally wrong as they kinda ended up looking rather errrmmmmm .................... rude hehehe :D.

[dakhound]

cats - not exactly short for but somehow it stuck, experience crystals/xp catalysers. They are produced by outposts and double your experience points when levelling.

OP's - outposts, areas that can be fought over and captured, produced cats/special craft materials/annoying nearly useless flowers

they are the only real solely ryzom related ones I can think of.

[gcaldani]

cats - not exactly short for but somehow it stuck, experience crystals/xp catalysers. They are produced by outposts and double your experience points when levelling.

OP's - outposts, areas that can be fought over and captured, produced cats/special craft materials/annoying nearly useless flowers

they are the only real solely ryzom related ones I can think of.
The only solely Ryzom related? ;)

what about:

Geo acronyms:

ToT -> Trench of Trial
FH -> Fairhaven
GoU -> Grove of Umbra
GoC -> Grove of Confusion
SC -> ambiguous... Scorched Corridor or Sunken City
LoC -> Land of Continuity
EF -> Elusive Forest
WoM -> Winds of Muse
BB -> Bounty Beaches
EI -> Enchanted Isle
MG -> Maiden Grove
KoD -> ambiguous... Knoll of Dissent or Knot of Dementia
Yrk -> Yrkanis
GoO -> Gate of Obscurity
HS -> Hidden Source
OC -> Outlaw Canyon
FF -> Flaming Forest
PR -> Prime Roots

Skills/Titles Acronyms:

OA -> Offensive Affliction
DA -> Defensive Affliction
AoD -> Avatar of Destruction
CG -> Celestial Guardian

Other:

LA -> Light Armor
MA -> Medium Armor
HA -> Heavy Armor
Amps -> Magic Amplifiers
TP -> Teleport Altar or Teleport Ticket
mats -> materials

Very important (not a real acronym, tho)

rez, pls -> Resurrect me, silly bastard blue dot on my compass!!!! :p


Feel free to add what i forgot...

[dakhound]

pfft gilga

*shakes fist*

[beaut666]

Not to de-rail or be Debbie Downer, but I will stay out of the politics again. That was the only time in Atys that I ever received insults and negative backlash was when I even so much as touched on the subject.

The only thing worse than politics in Ryzom is raiding in WoW! lol

Beau

[killgore]

Attacking Beau for being in Ballistic Mystix when he wasn't involved in OPs or anything other then being a newb was one of the saddest things I experienced in Ryzom. I can understand your feelings Beau.-Kil

[iphdrunk]

Other Acronyms -
--------------------
Caveat Emptor:
Some are rarely used, or depend on the context (e.g in a player sig - signature), some are subjective or used in small communities


sup(s) - supreme quality material(s)
exc - excelent quality material
dap(s) - dapper(s), coins, money - 10k, 2M, etc.
fame - attribute of a PC related to its relationship with a tribe/group/race etc.
cap - limit
stack - items used to have a cap of 99 stackable items, stack was implied to be 99 items of...


Skill trees
-------------
(not all are used, only hose that have a "rythm")

OA, DA, Heal (?), Ele (elemental magic, offensive)
CC - Close Combat
1H / 2H -
DF, FF, PrF, LF, JF, - Foraging related

Regions
----------------
PR: Prime Roots

Actions
----------------
CP - Careplan
Nuke - Cast an elemental spell, usually, double
Vamp - Vampirism option


Skins and Qualities
-------------------
LQ - Low Quality
BQ - Basic Quality
MQ - Medium Quality
HQ - High Quality

Titles
------------
AoD - Avatar of Destruction
AoS - Avatar of Sorrow
CG - Celestial Guardian
ML - Mind Lord

Titles were revamped and could change




Mat Properties and Crated item properties
------------------------------
HP - Hit Points
PF - Protection Factor
Dura - Durability
Dmg - damage
Spd - Speed

Jewel properties
----------------
JR / PR etc - Resistances

....

Other points
--------------
- Usage of mats by their name (moon, hash, pha....)
- Name of region (as Gilga said, GoC,...). this will take a bit
- qX - quality level q1... q270


I will update it from time to time too, memory is not serving me well :P

[iceaxe68]

Attacking Beau for being in Ballistic Mystix when he wasn't involved in OPs or anything other then being a newb was one of the saddest things I experienced in Ryzom. I can understand your feelings Beau.-Kil

There was a time there that things got... well... unpleasant. I sure hope we've learned from more recent experience and value and respect each other OOC even if we're deadly enemies IC. And yeah, Beau surely never deserved ANY kind of grief.

*hugs Beau*


EDIT:
OOC - Out of character
IC - In character

I think "someone" should collect the acronyms and start a new (potentially sticky) thread. If nobody beats me to it, I'll do that later tonight when I have a bit more time. Feel free to save me the effort, though. ;)

[xl2i5]

i giggled a little when i read celestial garden.. im sure it was just a typo..celestial guardian.

*smiles*

[sidusar]

If nobody beats me to it, I'll do that later tonight when I have a bit more time. Feel free to save me the effort, though. ;)
See, this was exactly what I was thinking too. :D

Though there's not really a great need for it until we actually have the game back...

[iphdrunk]

See, this was exactly what I was thinking too. :D


Make us three :P

That goes without mentioning that, in our community, we make acronyms of even a) servers b) guides/CSR c) guilds d) players...

a) Servers and Game Periods
NA - North American Server (Windermeer - now dead)
EU or EE - European Server, old Arispotle, now merged, and a.k.a "Aris"
FR / DE

OB: Open Beta
FBT: Focus Beta Test
CB: Closed Beta
EoA: Elder Of Atys


SoR: Saga of Ryzom. At some point Marketoids decided to just call it "Ryzom" to make it more appealing...
ML: Main Land, the "point of no return" after leaving noob island, later Silan.


b)
Tak, Azh, Fadin, Plan, Shadow /ST , Mint, ... (US)
Souls / SN , Shads / SW, Zerls, Tigs (them brits use the same shorthands!)...


c) OOTN, ON, BM, OV, Infty, KV, EoA, Evo, ...

d) You can blame this to the laziness of yours truly (apologies if I forgot), but some thanks also to the usage by other peeps have become common:

DT, Fasi, Sin, Pos, Moon, Lath, Sekh, Ryz, ....


Please note that there is a trend here (as in mat, sup, etc.) basically you type the first syllabe or few chars of the word and then get tired and drop it :P. Finally, there are other, less useful acronyms, but I mention them for the sake of completeness

OCTSE: "Oh crap the source exploded"
DAAD: "Don't Alttab and Dig"
TIBIHPA/I: "this is bulls**t, I had pressed aura/invul..."
IARISMAA: "I am retarded, I sold my amps again"

I have plenty more :)

[d29565]

I dont think i ever heard the last few you have listed there Ani

[sidusar]

Me neither, I think she's just making them up for the sake of it now :p

Anyways, I'll start a new thread for it so we can get this one back on topic ;)

[zarozina]

I dont think i ever heard the last few you have listed there AniI have. Especially the last one :D

[rhaenaan]

Politics? We had politics here? <cough>

I must have missed them when the bottles were whizzing by my head during the temper tantrums, bar fights and name calling :)

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
The best elements of SoR came out of the fact that people were so passionate, involved and *real*. Unfortunately, that also led to some of the worst things about it. I kinda hope that any revival manages to recapture it all. The good and the bad. It wouldn't be the same if SoR became "just another game". (though it would certainly beat SoR just filling shelf-space in a cabinet full of backups)

I think that it would be tough to have the good without the bad. Maybe we could have a "Survivor: Atys" event and vote people off the planet every few months to minimize the "bad" :)

[rajron]

I think that it would be tough to have the good without the bad. Maybe we could have a "Survivor: Atys" event and vote people off the planet every few months to minimize the "bad" :)

but then where would 'I' go??

[komissar]

Maybe we could have a "Survivor: Atys" event and vote people off the planet every few months to minimize the "bad" :)

Yikes! Now that indeed does sound a great deal more scary than a half-zorai half kincher :D
I'd say let's not ;)

[rajron]

Yikes! Now that indeed does sound a great deal more scary than a half-zorai half kincher :D
I'd say let's not ;)

Yay! *huggles*
Does this mean I can stay?
*happily curls up on Uni*
"just TRY and make me move"

[fiach]

The hugest ego on Atys will return full force. This is me right? - SunCe -



If you have to ask that question, you appear to have a lower ego than most imagined (joke).

I would like to see neither side dominate the server again, I came back because kami were down, I was happy when it was balanced just before the shutdown and wasn't interested in persuing a kami dominated server ideal.

Hopefully if there is no wipe, the staus quo can be maintained, if not I would prefer a wipe and start afresh.

IMO OP's spoilt a great community spirit, but it was (IMO) due to the fact it took so long to implement, we had bonded too much.

Anyway looking forward to walking through the desert again, regardless of level.

[kazaam31]

I´ll go for pvp and that will never change :)

[acridiel]

Politics? We had politics here? <cough>


Of course.
With "polit", stemming from the nice old term polit office. Y´know those guys Komissar used to have to obey without question.
And tics, well.... :P :D

*hides*
Acridiel

[rhaenaan]

If you have to ask that question, you appear to have a lower ego than most imagined (joke).

Even big egos need to be stroked once in awhile. <huggers sunce!> :)


I would like to see neither side dominate the server again, I came back because kami were down, I was happy when it was balanced just before the shutdown and wasn't interested in pursuing a kami dominated server ideal.

I think that one way to deal with it would be to have factional NPCs that spawned to even the playing field. e.g.: Swarms of progressively more aggressive kitins that attacked OPs the longer that they were held, bandits that were more aggressive towards larger guilds, or maybe even recruitment incentives that the Kami or Kara would offer to defectors when there was an extreme imbalance.


Hopefully if there is no wipe, the staus quo can be maintained, if not I would prefer a wipe and start afresh.


There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to a wipe. I was getting pretty bored (for the second time) before the shutdown and found myself spending more time chatting and escorting newbies around than actually playing. I just couldn't bring myself to create a new character after the investment of time.


IMO OP's spoilt a great community spirit, but it was (IMO) due to the fact it took so long to implement, we had bonded too much.


The first mistake was the stupid Kitin invasion. We lost a lot of good players to a poorly executed scenario. Then the whole PvP mess. Then the OPs fragmented what was left of us. I kind of liked the fact that it was very "real world" in the sense that we had gotten past the whole racial factionalization and then found ourselves plunged into conflict over the OPs. But it was frustrating that we quickly reached a relative balance and went stale. I think that the OPs would have been more successful if there were some external factors to keep them continually in flux. I'd also love to see that whole crystals thing revised. They were nothing more than crack and a way to widen the gap between the "haves" and "have nots". If you were part of a guild with access to an OP, you already had an advantage for leveling just by being part of a "significant" guild. The OP Mats were a good idea, but we need a local Nancy Reagan figure to "Just say no to crystals".

One of the things that I don't like about the other games is that they make the conflicts so "black and white". Even the game mechanics stop you from talking to or trading with "the enemy" in some games. I really liked the fact that my guild was multi-racial and we worked across factions when it suited our purposes. (I wasn't so fond of the espionage and political manipulations, but that's a personal thing and not a suggestion that it be eliminated/prevented)

Anyway looking forward to walking through the desert again, regardless of level.

o/` I've been through the desert on a Mek with no name. o/`
I'm with you on that. I miss Fyros (smelly Monkeymen and all)

[akovylin]

OPs need to be connected to faction (or races/tribes) then opposing factio/race (maybe even tribe) can assist in taking them - the more ops have one faction/race the less guards they can support for each op and more attackers can send in help opposing faction/race

But its more "hardcore" separation of community thow :)

[acridiel]

Its always fascinating to watch how people blame their own failures and childish behavior on external influence.

You smoke because of the commercials and because its considered "cool" by some.
You drink alcohol in extensive quantities because its considered "cool" by sadly a great majority.
You act like a jerk to members of another race because your "parents taught you to".
You behave like kindergarteners over a plot of digital property and "drugs" and blame the creators of the game.

*shakes head*
Sad, really sad.

If people wouldn´t have reacted the way they did, nothing would have fractured, no friendships would have been spoiled and no fun would have been lost to your game.
Act like the adults you are and maybe, just maybe you´ll see that even with its perceived shortcomings, the game can really be more that just bashing others and hating others for being of "the other faction".

Now, go and roast me over low flames,
I like it medium please ;) :p

CU
Acridiel

[fadebait]

You smoke because of the commercials and because its considered "cool" by some.
You drink alcohol in extensive quantities because its considered "cool" by sadly a great majority.

Since when were those two failures? :D

In related news, if you are deliberately condescending and patronising your point (no matter how valid, or otherwise) tends to get overlooked.
Ending with sentences that effectively say 'ok, now please flame me' don't really help get your point across, either.

[acridiel]

Since when were those two failures? :D
Despite knowing that they´ll kill you RL eventually? ;) :p


In related news, if you are deliberately condescending and patronising your point (no matter how valid, or otherwise) tends to get overlooked.
Ending with sentences that effectively say 'ok, now please flame me' don't really help get your point across, either.

True, but experience shows that it will happen and sorry if I might come across as patronizing here,
but I´ve simply found no better words to state what I think on these matters.

Some peoples behavior has been extremely immature regarding the whole issue in the past, or hasn´t it?

CU
Acridiel

[dakhound]

If people wouldn´t have reacted the way they did, nothing would have fractured, no friendships would have been spoiled and no fun would have been lost to your game.
Act like the adults you are and maybe, just maybe you´ll see that even with its perceived shortcomings, the game can really be more that just bashing others and hating others for being of "the other faction".

Now, go and roast me over low flames,
I like it medium please ;) :p

CU
Acridiel


acting like an adult is overrated, without the love, hate, jealousy and joy people took from being part of something kami, karavan, guild, whatever this game would be nothing.

I love having enemies almost as much as I love having friends.

edit: alot of stuff will(could) kill you, but if you go through life without doing them you'll do nothing

[fadebait]

Back in the day I could never have said this but... Jack does have a point here.
As long as you don't take it too seriously, it can actually be fun. Of course it stops being fun as soon as peoples feeling sget hurt and there is unpleasantness between people (especially when this happens in public), but if you don't take outposts, cats, etc too seriously and don't get upset if someone steals your outpost then its actually quite enjoyable :)

And yeah, if you live your life doing nothing at all that is bad for you, I doubt you will be really enjoying it :)

[iceaxe68]

A large group of people will always react to anything in a variety of ways, some appropriate and some not. Fact of life.

It was sad to see people getting their feelings hurt, and also sad to see people being unsympathetic. Sometimes we all need to take a step back and think about the fact that it's just a game, and sometimes we all need to take another step back and remember that the players are real people.

I try really hard to never say anything in a game, or in a forum, or any other place, that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

[acridiel]

acting like an adult is overrated, without the love, hate, jealousy and joy people took from being part of something kami, karavan, guild, whatever this game would be nothing.

I love having enemies almost as much as I love having friends.

edit: alot of stuff will(could) kill you, but if you go through life without doing them you'll do nothing

True, but as an adult you (should) know how to judge your feelings and (mostly) won´t let them get the better of you. :)
And if I understand correctly, its more of a "friendly rivalry" you´re referring to, isn´t it?
That´s ok in my book too, but I´ve seen some sad individuals relay loose RL friends over sich stupid things as PvP in a Game.
Here and elsewhere.
These are who need to grow up.

I won´t say "to get a life", because as Gamers they´ve got several and some Extra for sure ;)

CU
Acridiel

[dakhound]

True, but as an adult you (should) know how to judge your feelings and (mostly) won´t let them get the better of you. :)
And if I understand correctly, its more of a "friendly rivalry" you´re referring to, isn´t it?

lol, I've had a few friendly rivalries but quite a few hate filled full on wars. Most probably they were my fault because I can be pretty opinionated apparently.

As for my feelings, damn they have got the better of me many a times, even the real hurtful things fade and you look back and know you were part of something epic. I remember leading my own guild out at a second round OP battle at american (evil kara) prime time and being depressed for 3 days when we failed by 1 round to take it. Now its probably one of my favorite gaming memories.

some people cant handle that level of commitment to a game and want to play their own way, most games I'm the same. Ryzom however I can live it (if you know what I mean)

*want it back soon I'm going soft with kami blood

[acridiel]

Hmhmhm, allright...
Commitment and letting a Game affect your real life in a negative way are in my oppinion two entirely different things, but well... it would lead too far now to discuss.

A certain level of commitment is understandable, appreciated and of course even practiced by me. Even I had a few rows with a friend about the Game of course.
But, at least to my knowledge, we´re still friends.
I wouldn´t let differences about a virtual world come really come between us.
We´re of different opinions and might even in the future get into each others hair about it, but it´ll never lead so far for me that I´ll not consider him a friend anymore.

And that´s what counts.

Leaving true friends behind because of some stupid OP-War, or any other facet of a GAME is simply very immature. It´s like being upset about your daddy beating you at checkers when you where 5 years old and since then never having spoken a word with him again ;)

CU
Acridiel

[zarozina]

acting like an adult is overrated, without the love, hate, jealousy and joy people took from being part of something kami, karavan, guild, whatever this game would be nothing.

I love having enemies almost as much as I love having friends.

edit: alot of stuff will(could) kill you, but if you go through life without doing them you'll do nothingFor once I agree completely with Jacko, which worries me immensly

[danolt]

I think we are overstressing the negative aspects of the in game conflicts. I have little doubt if the Aris community lived closer together, like those on the other two servers, you would be seeing quite a bit of out of game bonding.

Think how much fun it would be to work on a habitat for humanity project in the morning and then lay some smack down later that night.

[acridiel]

I think we are overstressing the negative aspects of the in game conflicts. I have little doubt if the Aris community lived closer together, like those on the other two servers, you would be seeing quite a bit of out of game bonding.

Think how much fun it would be to work on a habitat for humanity project in the morning and then lay some smack down later that night.

*LOL* Ouh, belive you me. Leanon had its share of OPen Post-Warfare too.
Pun intended :p

CU
Acidiel

[cushing]

Well, getting back to the initial posting:

come on, we all know the political player led politics are the thing that makes this game so damn good, otherwise we'd be bored crapless killing najab for your 10th master with a staff and pretending its for a reason.

I totally agree. Politics is an important part of the RP fun for me. I can get quite excited about these things, in fact, so much probably that it frustrates me immensially when the outcome fails. I play my character as true to his beliefs as possible. By the closing-down of the servers, however, it was about 2 or even 3 Kami to 1 Karavan on Leanon; we had lost all OPs outside of Matia, and probably the next thing would have been to loose Matia as well, and when you reach that point everything gets a bit sour. Looking back (I did not feel like that from the start) I'm thankful for the OPs, because without them politics would make no sense at all, but if you get to the point of "slavery" or economic dependence you need more than guts to stand through it. Having no skill at 250 (two fighting skills a bit over 100 *coughs*, and only healing over 200) you also don't get that "This is Sparta!" feeling. *g*

Having said that, I never got to the point where I had real OOC differences with players for IG actions or happenings (and vice versa). There may be a few players I don't care much about, and I know some who hate me intensely (probably more on Kara than Kami side *g*), but some of my greatest Kamist enemies I like a lot OOC. They put as much heart's blood into their characters as I do. What I don't like at all are those who choose (or change) their sides for pure OOC decisions; that sometimes make me a bit desperate. That some of my closest friends (and I'm talkin' friends, not good acquaintances or people I like for different reasons) fight side by side with me is a great extra. But if it won't be that way, my character's beliefs and his politics won't change. Salazar might change in mood, probably, but not in actions.

[wardone]

i was thinking on some of the battles and the spirit they were played in, what i noticed was everytime a battle was fought with equal numbers the spirit was good and the battle much more fun.
obviously the unequal battles were a little more heated in genral but you can't beat some region banter :D

[wardone]

acting like an adult is overrated, without the love, hate, jealousy and joy people took from being part of something kami, karavan, guild, whatever this game would be nothing.

I love having enemies almost as much as I love having friends.



jacko has hit the nail on the head there
and in some wierd way i loved him going karavan so i could make full use of my tar jacko macro at every oppertunity.

oddly i always targeted my friends on the enemy force than people i did actually dislike.

Ffi i too am worried jack making sense? did the universe shift over to the left by 1mm? lol

[d29565]

The politics of the game can be taken way out of context at times. Sometimes, people start to make it personal, and that is when I start to get my feelings hurt. These are also things I've never forgotten, and probably talk about way to much.

I've mentioned in a previous post that I like the politics of the game, I just dont like when things are escalted and they are taken to a personal level. But, I might just be a sensitive person deep down. *shrug*

[sidusar]

You behave like kindergarteners over a plot of digital property and "drugs" and blame the creators of the game.
I think you misunderstand a bit here, it's not quite as simple as that. If a player decides to gank me in the PR, that's solely his decision and I'll hold him alone responsible for making that decision. However, I'd also hold the creators of the game responsible for making it possible to gank me in the PR in the first place.

It's the player's choice to be a jerk or not, but it's the creator's choice how strongly the game discourages or encourages players to be jerks. Stating that any tension resulting from certain game mechanics is purely the fault of the playerbase and the creators have no fault in it whatsoever, nevermind that they knew implementing that feature would encourage animosity, is just as wrong as saying it's all the creator's fault and the players were just "playing the game as it was intended". There's always a shared responsibility here.

To pull it to your RL analogies, it's not so much like blaming the commercials for making you smoke, it's like blaming the owner of a bar for allowing people to smoke in the bar and thus polluting the air you breathe with their smoke.

(For the record I have no problem with people killing me in the PR. ;))

That´s ok in my book too, but I´ve seen some sad individuals relay loose RL friends over sich stupid things as PvP in a Game.
Well, whether that's sad depends on the details. I'd never hold it against someone if they kill me a bazillion times in OP battles. I'd probably like them more for it. :)

And I frequently have differences of opinion with others about any and all aspects of the game, sometimes getting in each others hair about it a bit, but again I generally won't hold it against them and I usually enjoy the discussions. :)

Some differences however, are too much. For example, concerning outposts there were certain actions that were commonly agreed to be 'bad form'. Like aggro dragging, and treshold raising. Some might consider doing it anyway acceptable, but I do not. So if I knew players to be engaging in that kind of behavior, then yes, I would hold that against them. If a RL friend were constantly engaging in that kind of behavior, I would hold that against him too, and it would strain our friendship.

Still, that's a relatively minor example and a minor strike against them, not enough to break a friendship by itself. But I actually have known people who I got along with fine in RL, then played an online game with them and found them to be acting like total jerks there. When asked why they acted like that, they'd tell me it was just a game. Like that makes it allright to be mean to others. I'm sorry, but that's an unreconcilable difference, people like that I simply do not want as friends online or offline.

I think it is simply another case of getting to know someone in a different environment, discovering another side of them, and re-evaluating your friendship with them as a result. So yes, I can imagine people loosing RL friends over PvP in a game and I would not, by definition, call them sad.

But, I know you mean those individuals who break up friendships simply because their friend choose to be on the other side, and I agree that is silly. I just felt this needed clarifying.

[acridiel]

But, I know you mean those individuals who break up friendships simply because their friend choose to be on the other side, and I agree that is silly. I just felt this needed clarifying.

Couldn´t have said all you said any better and especially the last sentence.
Its sums up what was my whole intention.
It´s realy funny to watch though how people that do not have these problems and do not show these abominable behavior seem to feel responsible to post that there are sooooo many others that don´t act like jerks.

Well doh, I know that ;)
Who´d a guessed ;) :D
*giggles*

It´s just that I really, really, really can´t get my head around the notion of ending a friendship because of a game and like you I think those who do such, should really adjust their values a tiny bit in favor of more social skills than being obnoxious. ;)

CU
Acridiel

[sidusar]

It´s realy funny to watch though how people [snip] seem to feel responsible to post that there are sooooo many others that don´t act like jerks.
I know, I know, I can't help it. :D

[dakhound]

I dunno I feel us jerks have a valuable amount of input on atys :D

[acridiel]

I dunno I feel us jerks have a valuable amount of input on atys :D

Of course you do, that´s why we value you so much *huggles* ;) :p

CU
Acridiel

[karmelit]

I am a bit worried if there will be a total wipe and we all have to start anew :eek:
My personal opinion is that politics is an important issue in Ryzom. I loved that part, even if I didn't like how it developed all the time. But at least it was possible to voice an opinion, especially when we were only a few who tried to oppose it :p

About gear and and stuff, I don't care much, but I care very much about our history!

[mercury]

Hiyaz Karm!

~quik~

[xzizoux]

wooot!!!! Aloha Karm and Quik...my old Guildies :D nice to see ya both alive

[pain1212]

wooot!!!! Aloha Karm and Quik...my old Guildies :D nice to see ya both alive

Heya you 3 old guildies:p :D

[karmelit]

Hello Quik, Marax and Lexius!

What's going on? :eek:
Joke aside, it's really great seeing you all here. I miss you guys

[wraith87]

Mmm well whatever wars you lot toss out. I will be there. Nubile and pelvic thrusting my way to victory.. a victory of pleasure and joy xD. Ahh.. looking foward to Ryzom's Rebirth

[kalindra]

I always enjoyed healing in OP battles... and then eating some grass... getting back up and healing again. :p

My only involvement in "politics" consisted in... distributing marshmelloes to friends and fiends alike between OP battles. :D

[karmelit]

Ah politics :p
I remember with a certain nostalgia when Elias guild summoned a few of us to a top secret meeting in Fyros. Alas, that got Lien Chang very upset.
And we were so stunned when they displayed powers none of us had any idea they had. We almost shit our pants and thought they were going to wipe us haha

[arfindel]

I love politics, but in the original sense, in Ryzom too many considered politics sinonim to manipulation, greed, and worse greed for power *sigh*

Politics = art of government of an urban area inhabited by citizens - Greek polītikos, from polītēs, citizen, from polis, city; It's the exercise of citizenship and the art of the city at the same time.

how? by
- persuasion - per-suadere (by convincing)
- propaganda (propagare, like in propagation for example, disseminate ideas, originally dissemination of Christian faith)

using
rhetoric= rhetorike techne - (where rhetor=orator) - the art of speaking

What can be nicer than working with ideas and confronting with mates ideas, trying to convince and challenging their ideas at the same time. Splendid game.

[cushing]

Of course, persuasion, rhetorics and (especially) propaganda often are simply used to cover and hide "manipulation, greed, and worse greed for power". ;)

I can live better with that on Atys than in real life, where you see exactly the same things in so-called politics. Weird about it is that they seem to be less clumsy and more subtle in game than RL. :rolleyes:

In the game I make extensive use of rhetorics for either persuasion (well, I'm member of a religious Order, remember?) or for silver-tongued humiliation of brutes or hypocrites (I said elsewhere: I'm a healer, not a fighter, so this my only weapon). Propaganda really isn't my cup of tea, in none of the Worlds.

Among the great things is the convincing and challenging, you're absolutely right, Faa, I love it - and I love to be challenged in turn by someone who has the same, nearly the same or greater skills than me! Might bore listeners to death, but wow! it gives me a thrill! :D

[arfindel]

Politics in Ryzom, whatever far they brought it with the OPs and cats mainly, is not touching somebody's real wellfare, happiness and being as in RL that's the beauty of it , as ones mistakes whatever bad, have not dramatical consequences, then the game is much more intellectual.

On the other side, complexity of game filtering the player base quite a lot, the player base cannot be assimilated with huge, urban loosly structured masses of people, a politician deals more with citizens like in ancient Greece, rather than with inform huge masses.

Well my idealist belief is that Internet and other means will bring us back somewhere in the future to being individuals rather than masses but that's SF imagination hehe. Coming back to games, the big (WoW, LotrO and other) raid structures are rejecting me mainly because they make successful only highly pyramidal structured communities, be they guilds or over guild organisations, militaristic ones if you want.

[sidusar]

I love politics, but in the original sense, in Ryzom too many considered politics sinonim to manipulation, greed, and worse greed for power *sigh*
As the post before me already says, this description of 'pure' politics seems a bit overromantic to me. Politics in it's essence is all about getting what you want through the manipulation of other people. And it has been that way ever since the ancient Athenians invented the word.

Just remember that "getting what you want" doesn't have to mean wealth or power, it can also be peace and justice and equality. And "manipulation of other people" doesn't have to mean underhanded backstabbing; treating people with respect is often the best way to get something from them. :)

I can live better with that on Atys than in real life, where you see exactly the same things in so-called politics. Weird about it is that they seem to be less clumsy and more subtle in game than RL. :rolleyes:
XD I noticed that too. I do think that seeing how politics develop in a small and limited environment like the Ryzom ingame world, has given me a little more understanding and appreciation for how politics work on a large scale in the real world. There it's about people's real wellfare rather than a bunch of virtual cats, but the principles are still much the same.

Politics = art of government of an urban area inhabited by citizens - Greek polītikos, from polītēs, citizen, from polis, city; It's the exercise of citizenship and the art of the city at the same time.
As for myself, I've enjoyed the politics in Ryzom mostly from the position of onlooker. I enjoyed following the developments and discussing them with others, but I did not generally seek to participate in it myself on the level I saw some guild leaders or HOs do.

But as Faa says up there, politics is the exercise of citizenship. Just because I'm not the leader of my own guild or the spokesperson for some iniative, doesn't mean I'm not part of the politics. You're part of the politics just by being in the world and interacting with others, whether you like it or not. :p

Again, just like in the real world. ;) Everything you do reflects what your values and ideals are, and has the potential to subtly change the opinions of those around you. You're just one person amidst thousands of others, but each of them is ultimately just one person who can only choose for themself. Your actions matter at much as anyone's.

And I also share the idealistic hope that more and more people will realise that, rather than thinking nothing they do matters because 'the government' will decide anyways... but I don't want to turn this into a RL political debate. That's interesting about raid games encouraging strict command structures though, I never thought about that...

Anyways, my point was just that in that small way, I have much enjoyed participating in the politics on Atys. :)

[arfindel]

Of course, persuasion, rhetorics and (especially) propaganda often are simply used to cover and hide "manipulation, greed, and worse greed for power". ;)

Bah you started me, sorry for long post, just felt like sharing some thoughts, ignore it if it's too much bla bla (give me a pick and I'll shut down fast lol).

Manipulation and persuasion are two different things but among which there's a confusing area of shared methods.

Manipulation, in my eyes, represents making your opponent do what you want regardless of his own desires and interests.
Persuasion is attempting to make the opponent see your point of view and adhere to it while pursuing his interests and desires.

Manipulation wants you to forget your interests and desires.
Persuasion wants you to adopt a different way to reach your interests and desires.

Manipulation asumes you are less intelligent than your manipulator.
Persuasion asumes you are the same intelligent as your interlocutor only you can be given new data or new interpretation of data.

Manipulation can use rhtoric in all the ways, including deceiving and lieing. Persuasion uses logical structure of rhetoric, it builds demonstrations like you do to prove a new theorema.

In short Manipulation is built on a selfish presumption, while Persuasion is built on a community good one (community might just mean you and me in this context). Manipulation comes from a power position, persuasion builds on a peer to peer position.

We are using persuasion on a daily basis. When we teach our kids to eat with a fork we are persuading them, when we make them read we're persuading them, when we kindly ask our colleague to close a door we're persuading him. Any single word that makes somebody else do something he would not do otherwise is persuasion.

Manipulation versus persuasion can be easiest seen in advertising. Old advertising is a lot based on manipulation. When I tell you my product is the best in the world I blatantly lie (I cannot possibly even know it's the best, or not, and I don't care) modern advertising bets you're cleverer than that and tries by different means to _convince_ you my product is the best.

Manipulation has no limits. Whatever your interest or desire is it can be the subject of your manipulation. Persuasion has boundaries in your object. What I mean: you cannot persuade somebody(object) it is good to jump from a 99 floor window, but nothing can stop you manipulate him to if your desire is that (subject).

The boundaries blurr when it's not clear if your object's desires and interests are coinciding with yours.

Example: I desire my object to work harder for less money. This will be in my interest (manipulation) but can be in the general community interest too and then, later, in his interest as well (persuasion).

Then I can identify manipulation from persuasion only based on the emitent intentions. But intentions are an emotional, interior level; we cannot possibly know 100% what's in a person's mind and conscience.
That's on the spot. Later, when we start knowing the whole context, we can infere much more about these intentions.

If we're in a postwar time when somebody preaches us about working together more for less money, then maybe the preacher is trying to persuade us for our all better good. If we're in a flourishing time when our work only makes his wallet fatter, then probably he tried to manipulate us.

But at t0 when the speech is done we can easily take manipulation for persuasion and vice versa because we lack context defining data.

P.S. Edited because I gave the wrong quote :P

[sidusar]

I see, we simply have different definitions then. :)

To me, to persuade someone means to change their mind. To manipulate someone means to (try to) get them to do something you want.

One possible thing you can want someone else to do, is to change their mind. Thus manipulation is a method that you can use to archieve persuasion.

I admit the word 'manipulation' usually has a negative meaning, in all the ways you describe. But it doesn't have to be negative. Think about giving a long heartfelt speech that basicly just comes down to "pleeease?". That's manipulation too.

What defines manipulation to me is that it doesn't use logic and reasoning. Any way to persuade someone other than using logical structures, is manipulation. We all manipulate on a daily basis, and mostly without evil intentions.

The thing is that manipulation can be used for evil intentions. A thruthful account of facts and logic can't be, that just is.

But manipulation isn't bad in itself, it all depends on how it's used. It's a tool that can be used for good or for evil. The word for "evil manipulation", one that uses lies, that assumes the object is less intelligent, that tries to persuade them to do something against their own interests, is 'deception'. :)

Oh, and advertising is forbidden from using blatant deceptions now, but it's still all about manipulation. It's just more subtle about it now. :D

[arfindel]

You're right, I am using "manipulation" as opposed to "persuasion" only in a bad way because of its etymology. Handling somebody as if it were an object implies the idea of puppet, the idea of power aso.

I believe you made me realise this has a little to do with my background: Being native in a latin language manus is more obvious to me as handling (in romanian hand=mână, manipulation creates a clear image of puppet use in my mind then).


===
manipulation
c.1730, "a method of digging ore," from Fr. manipulation, from manipule "handful" (a pharmacists' measure), from L. manipulus "handful, sheaf," from manus "hand" (see manual) + root of plere "to fill" (see plenary). Sense of "skillful handling of objects" is first recorded 1826; extended 1828 to "handling of persons" as well as objects. Manipulative is from 1836; manipulate is from 1831.

[camlost2]

I predict I will be back, causing some cuddly havoc and mindblowing mayhem one way or the other in some way or form or the other.

Kinda missing you all..

[arfindel]

Heeeey Bereeeeen !!!! *GLOMPS Beren*
*Beren activates macro:*
Little fluffy tryker down!! Come to rescue!
*Keiko hears, runs to help, and... buff Beren is glomped again*
*Beren activates macro:*
Little fluffy tryker down!! Come to rescue!
*Icenn hears, runs to help, and... buff Beren is glomped again*
*Beren activates macro:*
Little fluffy tryker down!! Come to rescue!
... to be continued...

[camlost2]

Ha ha ha, good times!

Not been too far away, I might even be getting my connection back soon, like I promised 6 months ago.. lol

Hope to see you all soon :)

[d29565]

Yay Beren!

I was gonna glomp you, but Faa already did it for me!

So, I'll give you nice, safe huggles instead!

*huggles Beren*