So, has the game REALLY changed in last 3 years?

[shany2]

Hi everyone

I used to play Ryzom about 3 years ago, and I was really impressed with it.
Sadly, despite some magnificent features, I can't say all of my impression was good.

Let's look at we had there:

The good:
1- An amazing crafting system. Perhaps it was the only game in the world in which you could really create anything. If you knew what resources to gather and use, and had the skills for it, you could create some amazing stuff. I think I saw hundreds of different swords, all using the same basic blueprint, but worked completly different.

2- Wonderfull skills progression. It was the first MMORPG that offered a classless system in wich with enough effort you could be whoever you wanted, and do what ever you choose.

3- Awsome magic and battle manuvers editing system. So you want a fireball, huh? but what type? stronger? faster? mana effective? maybe it cost health instead? maybe it pierce armor? and so on and so on.

The BAD:

1- All races were in truth the same. This was moronic. You have 4 different races, they all look so unique, why not actually make them different? The only difference was that starting location and thir graphics. AWFULL.

2- NO JUMPING. I'll repeat it, couse it's so idiotic. NO JUMPING. REALLY!! You couldn't jump, could fall, you couldn't even climb some things things that were an inch tall, couse they weren't defind as "stairs". I get sick just thinking about it.

3- There is no nice to say it, so I just will. No quests. Yep. No plot. No missions. No adventure. No real reason to do anything. All you did was wonder around, kill stuff, create stuff, level up, but there was nothing to really explore, no story the unveil, no...nothing.



Now, three years passed. The owning company changed. And the question I must ask is: Has the game changed?

You guys played it, so you tell me. Are those 3 BAD things still with us? Or is it just the same as back then? What is the statues of the game?

Please, Let me know, so I can decide if I want to give Ryzom another chance or not.

[iphdrunk]

Now, three years passed. The owning company changed. And the question I must ask is: Has the game changed?


A straight question deserves a straight answer: not in any meaningful way in these 3 years. :(


Now, to please those who would scold me for stating such an answer, the long answer involves the following aspects:

- a renewed interest in events, although limited in Arispotle server. It can overcome lack of gameplay updates, but it delegates the effort to the event team.

- a certain dose of optimism, not different from the optimism shown in the first change of owners, though.

- nice bug fixes, this is something to highlight (although some would qualify them as "two large patches that you have recieved for free. These patches have fixed many bugs and added many new features", in all fairness I would not consider them notable changes from the gameplay/content point of view, although they did increase stability and fixed exploits etc)

- minor additions and tweaks (new icons, tag craft items, a wheel of fortune, stam tweaks, consumables)

- reworked Silan missions

I am pretty sure other players will present their views to, probably providing fair arguments to convince you to stay too ;)


Yours
Ani

[jam2005]

There have been no changes to the races. There's still no jumping. Quests have been improved for the training island, but have not changed on the mainland.

Those 3 points being covered... there have been a few things changed here and there in the past few years, so it never could hurt to download it again and pop in under a free trial to judge for yourself. ;)

[memiki]

What is it with the jumping thing?
I don't understand. So you see a bunch of children jumping in the air. Big deal, I don't care for people jumping all over in front of me.

Personally I don't miss jumping at all.

It certainly is not game breaking.

Sure safer than another game I play where I keep falling off cliffs and many times dying.

[katriell]

Quests suck anyway. (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/katriell/072008/2143_Storyline-Implementation)

[shany2]

So, basicly, the 3 main reasons why I left the game havn't changed, right?
Thanks for the answers, obviously I will not be returning anytime soon.

Pitty, I hope maybe one day someone will make this game into what it has the potential to be...But if it didn't happen during the last 3 yeats, I doubt it will happen at all.

[fiach]

Nice story, can't wait for the book. QQ

[kaetemi]

2- NO JUMPING. I'll repeat it, couse it's so idiotic. NO JUMPING. REALLY!! You couldn't jump, could fall, you couldn't even climb some things things that were an inch tall, couse they weren't defind as "stairs". I get sick just thinking about it.If I wanted to jump around in a world with realistic physics, I'd just go outside. I am personally against the recent popularity and overuse of realistic physics in games. It often tends to take control over the entire gameplay, and in the end all you get is this bunch of generic physics puzzle games *cough*hl2*cough*.

I think I'll go outside for a walk tomorrow.

[shany2]

OMG

To all of those who say that quests are idiotic, or that jumping is bad: I have a surprise for you, you are the minority. The fact that you got used to something bad doesn't make it good.

Fact is, most people think that a good compeling story, with deep and complex mythology, is imortant in a game. Also, Most people thinks that 3D needs to involve something more than just the graphics, but actual ability to move in 3D. (which include jumping, falling, and climbing to begin with, flying is always fun, but not a must)

So, you guys can think that less is more and vice versa all you want, but fact is? the way the game is (and sadly didn't change during a whooping 3 years time), it ain't going to get enough players to actually make it a financial success, and it will probobly going to fail (read: shut down) again.

You can agree or disagree if you like, but I suggest you'd think why Ryzom never became as big as WH online, WOW, COX, FFXI, Runescape, AOC, or even GuildWars (which is the only successfull game to also have no jumping, but have a very complex and intresting plot, and is free to play).

[aantonov]

I also tried before Ryzom,and I myself see no changes from the previous try.

[cloud071]

To all of those who say that quests are idiotic, or that jumping is bad: I have a surprise for you, you are the minority. The fact that you got used to something bad doesn't make it good.

It's in no ways bad. From what you've been saying, you want to turn Ryzom into something that truly separated it from all other MMO's: The own player's story.

Why do you want to take away it's sparkle?

Second: Why jump? First off, it's annoying to see others always pogo'ing all over the place. Second off, do you know how much code and revisions of current code would be needed to actually implement this?

[rdfall]

Fact is, most people think that a good compeling story, with deep and complex mythology, is imortant in a game.

<Sarcasm>
right, because Ryzom NEVER won the MMORPG's reader's choice awards for best story, ESPECIALLY not in 2005, and CERTAINLY NOT with almost a third of the votes.
</Sarcasm>

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/388/page/6/

the reason ryzom never became that big? honestly? Bad marketing, most if not all marketting for ryzom has always been through word-of-mouth, this combined with a bad patch near the start of the game (the horror that was Patch 1) which decimated the population and significcantly decreased the influx of players because there was less word-of-mouth, unfortunately is a vicious cycle.

[raven58]

Originally Posted by shany2
Now, three years passed. The owning company changed. And the question I must ask is: Has the game changed?

You guys played it, so you tell me. Are those 3 BAD things still with us? Or is it just the same as back then? What is the statues of the game?



shany2 hi to be honest its still the same old Ryzom! I have played on and off for the past few months and even with the updates old players will not much of a change to keep them playing for long.
Look this game is great for the new players and the old players "ill play Ryzom not matter what" group.

The new players will get from a month to six months worth of good play out of ryzom(as it stands now ) before getting fedup and well the other group will keep playing till the end of time even if this game never ever has a patch again, This group of players you will find in every game anyway.
Its all down to the new owners and what they do with the game! only time will tell....but while its free why not give Ryzom some game time and see for yourself.

[katriell]

To all of those who say that quests are idiotic, or that jumping is bad: I have a surprise for you, you are the minority.
Nothing wrong with that. Ryzom is and always will be a niche game. Grabbing for the majority would kill it more surely than anything.

You haven't studied the genre and this game's relationship to it deeply enough to know what you're talking about. You're just a clueless, shallow consumer.

[shany2]

Nothing wrong with that. Ryzom is and always will be a niche game. Grabbing for the majority would kill it more surely than anything.

You haven't studied the genre and this game's relationship to it deeply enough to know what you're talking about. You're just a clueless, shallow consumer.

Oh, you got it so wrong. Oh well

[alyssah]

Looking at the number of players who started in 2004, not a lot has changed. Nice to see you are all still alive and kicking despite historic disasters (patch one, Faction warfare and bankruptcy to name but a few).

Like many other original players (beta and Sept 04) I keep watching the game to see if the community and gameplay will expand.

Best wishes to the loyal community and good luck to the new developers. Get it right and there are a host of players who would return.

Aly

[katriell]

Oh, you got it so wrong. Oh well
Wow, that's all you can say? Apparently you're not even capable of properly supporting your argument. My last post was in the same vein as yours, I'll admit, but I already wrote and linked to my analysis.

[lya74656]

Well, gotta admit, jumping and third dimension in general -has- its merits. Hunter disengage off the cliff + engineer's parachute cloak = flight over half of the zone. Pretty much fun in PvP... death from above!

As for those constantly jumping morons, those can be easily weeded out by having each jump eat a bit of fatigue points. Five, six jumps - fatigue gone, no more jumping until it regenerates.

You know, it would be neat to be able to jump off those stupid one-meter-high ledges, instead of getting stuck in them while running away from nasty sharptoothed beasts. I died on more than one ocassion because I ran into "dead end" caused by dumb physics engine that won't allow me to run over the minor ledge. No, it doesn't happen to me on daily basis, but I can imagine that running into a trap like this can be a major decision factor for some newcomers. Yes, we got wonderful skill system and awesome ecology, but your average new player won't give a poo about that, if their first contact with our awesome ecology means being eaten by ragus while trying to jump off some minor terrain bump.

Yes, you have every right not to want jumping implemented. But making terrain bumps more navigable would be sufficient for now. If it's as high as a homin, it should be climbable or jumpable for a homin, no matter how steep it is. Homins are no wimps, after all.

[fadebait]

I think calling others "clueless, shallow consumers" is a step too far.

They don't like some things about Ryzom? That's ok. There's a line between fan and fanatic, which is drawn by your reaction when someone critisizes that which you love.
A fan says: "Oh, well, that's a pity, I really love it because of xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" [And probably continues adding reasons why they love it for the next 30 mins]
A fantatic says: "You don't like it? Well, you suck then. *stabbity*"

Don't be a fanatic.

[yuritau]

Fact is, most people think that a good compeling story, with deep and complex mythology, is imortant in a game. Also, Most people thinks that 3D needs to involve something more than just the graphics, but actual ability to move in 3D. (which include jumping, falling, and climbing to begin with, flying is always fun, but not a must)

Anyone who expresses the opinion that Ryzom doesn't have a complex and compelling storyline has VERY OBVIOUSLY not played the game enough to know what they are talking about.

[dlice]

So gotta add my 2cts, maybe goes bit OT, but still gotta say what i have to say.

I actually like #3, theres is nothing worse as doing silly quests.
I mean in most games i've played 95% of all quests are l like go to x, kill y, go back, now where's the usefullnes in that ...
Remaining 5% ok, would be nice to have a few more story quests, but I haven't missed them.

If you find nothing to do without questing, you really got a serious problem.
Imagination ? Creativeness ?

And theres also player generated content (haven't tried that in a while tho)

But yeah you gotta like the game or not, definitely has its own charm.
I am aware the game has it flaws (loads of grinding, variety of gameplay), but I think the pro's outweight that by far.
I know a couple of RL friends which tried and didn't like it which I respect.
Just stop comparing this game to other titles which are so much different you can't really compare it. (most titles are class driven, that alone makes it complicated enough to compare)

And while the lore doesn't look deep at the first glance it actually is if you dig a bit ;)

For some last words, I played or even still play other titles, but if I had to choose one, it's surely this one (since my old favorite got killed by the devs).

[katriell]

I think calling others "clueless, shallow consumers" is a step too far.

They don't like some things about Ryzom? That's ok. There's a line between fan and fanatic, which is drawn by your reaction when someone critisizes that which you love.
A fan says: "Oh, well, that's a pity, I really love it because of xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" [And probably continues adding reasons why they love it for the next 30 mins]
A fantatic says: "You don't like it? Well, you suck then. *stabbity*"

Don't be a fanatic.
He portrays himself as such. I call it like I see it. I have already listed in detail the reasons I love Ryzom. If he's too intellectually lazy to follow the link, read and consider those reasons, and accept that not every game has to cater to him, that's his problem. Honesty, and yes, a dose of elitism is my problem but I don't feel obliged to rein myself in for the sake of him or his preferential fellows.

[kalindra]

I must say, the 3 things you list as "BADs" I found in other games that I tried while Ryzom was down... and I hated those games so much that I came back running to my good old Ryzom as soon as it was back up.

3D engine with climbing/falling/jumping , story driven quests, and difference between the "races" didn't make me love that game. Many other things made me hate it though. There is something that I find in Ryzom that I could never find anywhere else, no matter how "modern" or popular the title was.

Either a game is for you, or it isn't. Ryzom is THE game for me. Obviously, it isn't for you, so keep your "blablabla it will fail again" to yourself. We've had more than enough of those threads already. We already know what the game does and doesn't have. It isn't because those features are critically important to you that they are necessarly essential to any and all game. Carbon copies are the bane of the game industry ! They kill originalty and uniqueness by preventing people to think outside the box. Believe it or not, some people will like the game for precisely the reasons why you dislike it. And they don't give a damn about being a minority.

If a game isn't for you, don't expect the Devs to diverge from their vision just to make it fit to your liking. I knew that the other games would never fill my needs so I just left and came back here as soon as possible. Find the game that pleases you and stick to it, don't flame other games for not being what YOU want them to be.

[memiki]

wonderful post sherkalyn.

I have tried the other games also, and always my heart stays in Ryzom. Even tho starter island is way easier now. :)

Not every game is going to suit everyone. Just find one you like and you will be as happy as we are. But don't compare games.

[gcaldani]

I must say, the 3 things you list as "BADs" I found in other games that I tried while Ryzom was down... and I hated those games so much that I came back running to my good old Ryzom as soon as it was back up.

3D engine with climbing/falling/jumping , story driven quests, and difference between the "races" didn't make me love that game. Many other things made me hate it though. There is something that I find in Ryzom that I could never find anywhere else, no matter how "modern" or popular the title was.

Either a game is for you, or it isn't. Ryzom is THE game for me. Obviously, it isn't for you, so keep your "blablabla it will fail again" to yourself. We've had more than enough of those threads already. We already know what the game does and doesn't have. It isn't because those features are critically important to you that they are necessarly essential to any and all game. Carbon copies are the bane of the game industry ! They kill originalty and uniqueness by preventing people to think outside the box. Believe it or not, some people will like the game for precisely the reasons why you dislike it. And they don't give a damn about being a minority.

If a game isn't for you, don't expect the Devs to diverge from their vision just to make it fit to your liking. I knew that the other games would never fill my needs so I just left and came back here as soon as possible. Find the game that pleases you and stick to it, don't flame other games for not being what YOU want them to be.
Damned nasty Kami, I have to fully quote you!!! :p:D

I really can't understand people wanna play games trying to find things that exists in other games, instead of just try to figure out what the game present you and what are the challenges.

This reminds me a people in uni that told how the game was crap because there were no 'nosferatu' power (he was clearly speaking of EVE)!
The first and only time i was not able to answer in a polite manner.
How retarded can be a people that start a new game searching for something he already have in another game?

I like jump, I like fly. I played CoX a lot of years just for that.

What i can't understand is why people don't consider the reasons around a choice. Jump in Ryzom is not allowed *on purpose*.

It was intentionally designed in this way to allow a challenged experience in traveling and exploring. Jumping would exploit most of the landscape and would remove most of the fun in trekkies.

You don't like this design (not telling to you sherk, but to OP)? You have all the right to dislike it, then go play something else that suits your tastes, and don't ask to change something that actually is a big design of the game.

Unless the devs redesign the entire world to fit the actual traveling challenges the players can experience, i can't see the jump happening anytime soon. And I absolutely don't want the jump if this means exploiting most of the hard path you have to do to travel safety.

An example: desertstock ramp. Mobs usually camp it and need a good effort to pass thru it. Now, i can jump and fall from the cliffs, then go near the border on one side, just 2 people. Then fall down and die. The friend rez you then he fall and die and you gives a rez back. 20 seconds and it's done.
No challenge, no effort, no fun.

It's just an example, and maybe inaccurate, but that's just to show what jumping would do to the game world: a major exploit of the entire landscape.

Instead, why don't take the absence of jump as a part of the Atys Quest?

Because it is exactly that. If you start a game and even don't try to understand the game itself then better to go play something else.

[kalindra]

You know you love me... you just won't admit it. :p

[acridiel]

All hail Kalindra! ;) :D

100% agreed.

CU
Acridiel

[jared96]

1- All races were in truth the same. This was moronic. You have 4 different races, they all look so unique, why not actually make them different? The only difference was that starting location and thir graphics. AWFULL.

I find this a bit contradictory considering the following statement you made on the GOOD side:

It was the first MMORPG that offered a classless system in wich with enough effort you could be whoever you wanted, and do what ever you choose.

If the races were different, wouldn't that put people into different "classes" ? OTOH, I have no issue with differences which are not insurmountable. For example, let's say a character of any particular race would get 10% more mats pulled when digging in their own land.

2- NO JUMPING. I'll repeat it, couse it's so idiotic. NO JUMPING. REALLY!! You couldn't jump, could fall, you couldn't even climb some things things that were an inch tall, couse they weren't defind as "stairs". I get sick just thinking about it.

When Ryzom was "down", I tried playing LOTRO. After creating a character, I arrived in a town and had 20 people pogosticking in my face. My foray into LOTRO therefore lasted about 30 minutes as everywhere I went there were crowds of people standing around pogosticking trying to get my attention.

3- There is no nice to say it, so I just will. No quests. Yep. No plot. No missions. No adventure. No real reason to do anything. All you did was wonder around, kill stuff, create stuff, level up, but there was nothing to really explore, no story the unveil, no...nothing.

This I don't understand.....there's ton of quests. Want quests ? There's like 50+ tribes in the gamne. Try raising your fame with as many tribes as you can such that you can go hang out in their camps without getting beat up.

As for the "nothing to explore", my beef with that is that's mostly the player's fault. Getting trekked to all the TP's is a real fun killer IMO. For me, my greatest excitement in game came from our team finally making it from Pyr to Dyron. Months later when we finally made the trip from Pyr to Yrkanis we were in awe. My 1st view of Virginia Falls was like "wow".

The best thing about earning your way to a new place is that you explore various route possibilities and get to stop and "smell the stingas" along the way. Being trekked by a group of 250's who are admonishing you every few minutes to "keep up" (awww....I wanna stop and take a look around) and "don't loot" (geez, we just killed level 210 mob, I wanna see what the mats are like) isn't fun.

It's like reading a novel in the format of a business report whereby the first few pages are the "executive summary" telling you what happens at the end.

Like most people I think, I most miss the absence of activities along the story line...... this is supposed to be about the kitin invasion and saving hominkind from Atys being over run .... But nothing is happening in this regard.

I'd like to see another round of OP's go live whereby they could be held jointly by say two guilds (one kami / one kara) united in the common defense of the land. These would be research centers where lore and knowledge would be shared. As a result of the defense of these from kitins, occupants could learn new craft patters (style only differences), or perhaps buffs (i.e. certain magic attack immunity on armor ) which would place an insignia of the immunity on the vest. Or perhaps an inbued enchant whereby there's a 5% chance say of making an electric attack on a succesful weapon strike. These skills would be amassed by Guild Trainers such that there is a "diminishing return" for "holding the OP". IOW, after say 2 Atys years, there'd be nothing "left" for a guild to learn there.

Guild members would be able to "buy" the skills with accumulated skill points an non members could also buy them if they accumulated enough guild fame. Guild Fame would be gained by helping the occupying guilds in defense.

[faedyne]

Re: pointless discussion about jumping

If I wanted to jump around in a world with realistic physics, I'd just go outside.
What does that even MEAN?? You can't use that argument about video games!

I am personally against the recent popularity and overuse of realistic physics in games. It often tends to take control over the entire gameplay, and in the end all you get is this bunch of generic physics puzzle games *cough*hl2*cough*.

There's an alternative in between the two extremes.

But I think the argument is moot. (as other people have already mentioned my two arguments against jumping)

1) Jumping would require a lot of play-testing and careful redesigning to make sure that no one could exploit it to get to places they weren't supposed to. (like somehow surviving a 50 foot fall and then ending up in the PR or Silan or someone's apartment)

2) Seeing idiots jumping all over the place could easily be avoided with a cooldown timer, so that they could only use it like speed-run, to clear objects as they flee aggro, or to get up a single ledge. Or have it use up large percentage of stamina. (so that high level players with more stamina wouldn't be able to jump more often, although perhaps they could lower the percentage slightly. I think it'd still need a cooldown though. Perhaps the cooldown could be lowered very slightly at higher levels as well.)


An example: desertstock ramp. Mobs usually camp it and need a good effort to pass thru it. Now, i can jump and fall from the cliffs, then go near the border on one side, just 2 people. Then fall down and die. The friend rez you then he fall and die and you gives a rez back. 20 seconds and it's done.
No challenge, no effort, no fun.

I hadn't thought of that.
Then again, sometimes a bug turns out to be a feature. (like TFC conq jumping)

But like I said, most likely moot. I'm not convinced that it's clearly going to break the game to implement it, but I do agree it would take a lot of work. (that's probably not worth it at this point)
Maybe maybe maaaaybe if (in addition to them figuring out if it would be something that would improve the game rather than detract from it) it became successful enough that it had the money to develop further, after implementing more important things they could afford to implement jumping.

[arramere]

I read this post (well mostly) and there are many good points.

I found this game when I took a break from WOW and I really liked it.
The fauna and exploration is really nice
Starting zone was rich with things to do : quests, crafting, learing new skills. I am a RPer and I was not frowned upon and most either went with it or didnt say anything. I wanted to make this my new home. This game IS NOT GEAR dependent as much as wow is. its all about the epics. In ryzom there is the crafting and like 1 poster said : make a sword but what do you want it to do ?
Jumping? well you get used to not being able too. and i really dont think it takes away from the game.

There is lore and yes you have to dig for it. Yes most games are kill that, bring this pack there, bring me 10 rat tails.....but there is some story line in there when you follow all the quests. Coming from wow I did compare it but I did give it my best shot and not be too judgmental

The thing that got me the most was the lack of people. yes that what i said. Once you get off nubie island every city, camp, trail was barren of players. I was in the next city from the island and I was questing all alone. If i was lucky there might be 1 other. Seems most are at cap level and stay there. **So why didnt you join a guild** I did! I joined a guild because I figured that was the only way to make contact with any one. All I winded up doing was killing lvl 99 bugs with a guildie to lvl up. which would mean that I would never bother to do any quests to learn about whats going on in the world and with the fractions as one progresses. now I know that at a certain point the players create the world in Ryzom and continue with guild alliances yeadda yadda....but you lose out on all that content.

So thats what killed it for me after ..what 4-5 months. I got tired of just watching an high lvl toon kill stuff. It is really a shame because if there was more people to interact with I would have stayed. And it would seem that not much has changed..........I might just see about that for myself......

[faedyne]

<Sarcasm>
right, because Ryzom NEVER won the MMORPG's reader's choice awards for best story, ESPECIALLY not in 2005, and CERTAINLY NOT with almost a third of the votes.
</Sarcasm>

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/388/page/6/

the reason ryzom never became that big? honestly? Bad marketing, most if not all marketting for ryzom has always been through word-of-mouth, this combined with a bad patch near the start of the game (the horror that was Patch 1) which decimated the population and significcantly decreased the influx of players because there was less word-of-mouth, unfortunately is a vicious cycle.

I agree the marketing was poor, but I don't think that's it's only failing.
The story is wonderful, but it's not pervasive.
It also doesn't happen around the player. It's generally static. All dynamic story is in player RP content and rare events.
The missions they have aren't really worth doing other than for fame and lore alone. And gaining the necessary lore is accomplished quickly, which means you do it purely for the lore. You stop doing "practical" things in order to experience the lore. We shouldn't have to stop leveling in order to do missions. Not that we need to be able to grind as hardcore as the hardcore grinders, but it shouldn't be a choice of one or the other.

Sandbox environments can be really dull when you're not looking to be creative. I'm an artist, so I like to be creative, but I can't roleplay for crap. My only creativity in Ryzom is in looking at outfit combinations, and that's a pretty limited set.
Also, roleplay relying mostly on text and whatever stock animations are available is pretty limiting. Sure, you can use text to describe anything, but it's still text. I know it's used to write books, but how many good book writers do we have? If Ryzom's player base is to mainly consist of fiction writers, it's not surprising we have a low player base. I think it's a bit harsh to say that if you [don't like] / can't RP you should not play Ryzom.

This I don't understand.....there's ton of quests. Want quests ? There's like 50+ tribes in the gamne. Try raising your fame with as many tribes as you can such that you can go hang out in their camps without getting beat up.

Most camps are ambivalent towards you. Those that start aggro against you, you probably don't want to gain fame with. You also can't gain fame with all tribes. Half of them will always hate you.
Also, while they won't jump to help you, they will attack any aggro that enters their camp regardless of why it's there. They're only a little quicker when you have positive fame with them. Yeah, maybe it'll save you, but I don't think it's really worth it.
It's really all about incentives. The ONLY incentive for doing quests is for people who are adamant about not digging, as they need to gain dapper somehow. (sure, I can understand it. it's not a play-style that everyone enjoys, but it's one of the best features of the game. digging and crafting.)

As for the "nothing to explore", my beef with that is that's mostly the player's fault. Getting trekked to all the TP's is a real fun killer IMO. For me, my greatest excitement in game came from our team finally making it from Pyr to Dyron. Months later when we finally made the trip from Pyr to Yrkanis we were in awe. My 1st view of Virginia Falls was like "wow".

The best thing about earning your way to a new place is that you explore various route possibilities and get to stop and "smell the stingas" along the way. Being trekked by a group of 250's who are admonishing you every few minutes to "keep up" (awww....I wanna stop and take a look around) and "don't loot" (geez, we just killed level 210 mob, I wanna see what the mats are like) isn't fun.
Agreed 100%. I sometimes lament at a trek, seeing these squishy, ignorant noobs. (no offense, I meant ignorant in an objective sense that they don't know how to do things like handle aggro solo) I always try to put a positive light on the learning experience of trekking solo when it's brought up.
Truth be told, while small trek groups can save you from death penalty, I actually find it easier to trek solo. There's no need to keep a tank up against aggro that (sometimes horribly) outclasses him, or to come back through aggro for him when he gets killed. I think I got two DP getting the Hidden Source TP a while back because someone was helping me to get it. (no offense. thanks for helping. ;) )

Like most people I think, I most miss the absence of activities along the story line...... this is supposed to be about the kitin invasion and saving hominkind from Atys being over run .... But nothing is happening in this regard.

Yup. and that's not so much lore, as it is that the gameplay doesn't reflect the same sense of urgency and doom that the lore does. Well, I suppose in reality the lore is expressing that we're at a time of relative safety from the Kitin. (for some reason)

I find this a bit contradictory considering the following statement you made on the GOOD side:

*snip*

If the races were different, wouldn't that put people into different "classes" ? OTOH, I have no issue with differences which are not insurmountable. For example, let's say a character of any particular race would get 10% more mats pulled when digging in their own land.

I think you already answered your own question to them. There needs to be something to overcome. While it is more difficult for a race that traditionally follows one of the K's to follow the opposite one, it's not terribly difficult. a few dozen missions and you're done forever.
It would be interesting if fame somehow effecting digging in other lands. That would give a lot more incentive to work one or all of the civilization fame, and would require a lot of work to gain fame with civilizations that traditionally are against your alliance.

[ldjaggy]

An example: desertstock ramp. Mobs usually camp it and need a good effort to pass thru it. Now, i can jump and fall from the cliffs, then go near the border on one side, just 2 people. Then fall down and die. The friend rez you then he fall and die and you gives a rez back. 20 seconds and it's done.
No challenge, no effort, no fun.



Some how I more imagined every Homin testing the idea of falling off the edge of the world, just to see whats down there....

Or for all those Homins who want to jump off the top observation deck of Fairhaven or another tall Homin-made structure and fall to their doom, go right ahead! It reminds me of another game, where the city was high up in the trees, and falling off a rope bridge or platform usually meant certain death.

[gcaldani]

Some how I more imagined every Homin testing the idea of falling off the edge of the world, just to see whats down there....

Or for all those Homins who want to jump off the top observation deck of Fairhaven or another tall Homin-made structure and fall to their doom, go right ahead! It reminds me of another game, where the city was high up in the trees, and falling off a rope bridge or platform usually meant certain death.

I understand. As I said, i like to jump and climb if possible.

What i wanted to point out is that, before asking for something, people should really think better at what would be the impact of such a feature in the world design, expecially when whole planet shows you (if you pay attention) at any corner why you cannot jump.

Maybe, with one million subs devs could have enough time and money to do that, not at the actual state of the game.

Unless the devs will consider enabling the jump and making the game easier (so, not caring of what could happens in the game design) in that way is more profitable than leaving the world as it is now.

Maybe there is an alternate solution in the middle.

But i think a jump is not what makes a game fun to play, anyway. If you have no fun in ryzom without jump, you will not have fun with it.

[suib0m]

To answer to the whole jumping thing, one of the "selling points" of this game, way back when, was the collision detection of player entities with themselves as well as the environment. The angle of this selling point was that you could lure your enemies into a narrow corridor and have some small amount of homins block further passage while other homins behind used this strategic placement to advantage and safety.

Now, this didn't quite play out to reality, but that was the idea and one of the main reasons (I believe) why jumping was not integrated into the game design. At the time it was something pretty new. The world has been designed with this type of strategy in mind, and changing this behavior would have some pretty heavy impacts.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have jumping, I wouldn't mind it (maybe) and I'm fine without it, but for those folks that just say it is stupid, realize that it was a specific design decision made for specific reasons that, at the time, were supposed to open a fairly new type of game play.

Peace,
- Sui

[fiach]

You cannot jump because the gravity on Ryzom is so strong, its especially strong in Tryker land, stunting the growth of its inhabitants.

Who needs lore :D

[troll16]

What is it with the jumping thing?
I don't understand. So you see a bunch of children jumping in the air. Big deal, I don't care for people jumping all over in front of me.

Personally I don't miss jumping at all.

It certainly is not game breaking.

Sure safer than another game I play where I keep falling off cliffs and many times dying.


Jumping is an important part of a game as well as having the ability to swim underwater. These add another dimension to the game make it a bit more realistic. Not being able to do these things gives the game a dated feel as many other MMOs have these features. Same for the boundaries in the game these were typical of older games.

It's not just children that like their characters to jump, your comment and those that share that view always makes me laugh as it shows a lack of understanding of why people likes these features. And no it's not so you can have a character bounce about like some demented rabbit :)


Edit: But the big question is could these changes be made to the game anyway, could the game support these features. It's possible it might not be able to.

[iphdrunk]

But the big question is could these changes be made to the game anyway, could the game support these features. It's possible it might not be able to.

Indeed. Rather than discussing whether it is appropriate or not to jump in the game, the question is whether Ryzom can be improved to support a third dimension (otherwise jumping is purely cosmetic and eye-candy much like spells and /alert), and the answer may be "yes, but with a lot of work". If the engine was coded with a "mostly-2d but with a few hacks to look-like-3d", the changes may be way more complex than expected. It is not to just move a bunch of polygons up-and-down, but to change the physics, the collision detection, and the way the server represents entities. It is quite probable that the server stores each entity as a (x,y) position (with a weird-z in some cases)

What I don't think is right is to dismiss those players wishing to "jump" with a condescending remark kinda "what for? to goof-jump like a rabbit?"... "In that game you can jump and there are only jumping idiots"...

It is akin to say "what do you want to sit for? to sit like a monkey?", "eat? what for?", "decorate your appartment? what a waste"....

A honest answer like "Ryzom was not conceived to be 3d and it would be unreasonable to change the engine now" (which I personally agree, there are way more important updates, imho), while explaining that it is not a trivial change as it may seem seems a better approach to me..

yours
Ani

[kalindra]

To be honest, I'd rather be able to sit on furniture. Why do we have stools in bars and taverns if we can't sit on them ? They're just obstacles then. Why can't I sit or lay-down on my bed ? Why do I have a bed then ?

If we can't sit on chairs, then remove the chairs, put cushions instead and lower the tables so we can sit by them on the ground. :rolleyes:

I don't care for jumping, but the annoying chairs getting im my way have always bothered me. :p

[dracolych49]

Re: pointless discussion about jumping


What does that even MEAN?? You can't use that argument about video games!


There's an alternative in between the two extremes.

But I think the argument is moot. (as other people have already mentioned my two arguments against jumping)

1) Jumping would require a lot of play-testing and careful redesigning to make sure that no one could exploit it to get to places they weren't supposed to. (like somehow surviving a 50 foot fall and then ending up in the PR or Silan or someone's apartment)

2) Seeing idiots jumping all over the place could easily be avoided with a cooldown timer, so that they could only use it like speed-run, to clear objects as they flee aggro, or to get up a single ledge. Or have it use up large percentage of stamina. (so that high level players with more stamina wouldn't be able to jump more often, although perhaps they could lower the percentage slightly. I think it'd still need a cooldown though. Perhaps the cooldown could be lowered very slightly at higher levels as well.)


I hadn't thought of that.
Then again, sometimes a bug turns out to be a feature. (like TFC conq jumping)

But like I said, most likely moot. I'm not convinced that it's clearly going to break the game to implement it, but I do agree it would take a lot of work. (that's probably not worth it at this point)
Maybe maybe maaaaybe if (in addition to them figuring out if it would be something that would improve the game rather than detract from it) it became successful enough that it had the money to develop further, after implementing more important things they could afford to implement jumping.*cough*ranged attack ammo*cough*

[acridiel]

On a sidenote, talking about "realism" in Games.

You either canīt or canīt jump.
Gamers endlessly argue about it.
But running at full tilt for days on end, only walking when its "needed", is completely normal and nobody argues about it. ;) :p
Funny, isnīt it?

CU
Acridiel

[ldjaggy]

But running at full tilt for days on end, only walking when its "needed",

By Jena, can you imagine trying to WALK the length of Atys, even if you didn't include all the hungry creatures out there ready to chew you to bits.

I'll see you in 10 days when you're done with that world trek!


.

[acridiel]

By Jena, can you imagine trying to WALK the length of Atys, even if you didn't include all the hungry creatures out there ready to chew you to bits.

I'll see you in 10 days when you're done with that world trek!


.

Yeah, thatīs exactly what I mean.
Running is totally normal and considered "real", or only thought of as a matter of convenience.
And I donīt only imagine this, I try to do it as often as I can.
Ok, Iīve yet to do a complete "walk of Atys".
But for the sake of the oft called forth "realism" when pointing out certain jumping issues, itīd be a logical conclusion to have running also be limited by stamina or a cooldown.
Isnīt it? ;) :p

*LOL*

CU
Acridiel

[faedyne]

*cough*ranged attack ammo*cough*
What was that in response to?

Yeah, thatīs exactly what I mean.
Running is totally normal and considered "real", or only thought of as a matter of convenience.
And I donīt only imagine this, I try to do it as often as I can.
Ok, Iīve yet to do a complete "walk of Atys".
But for the sake of the oft called forth "realism" when pointing out certain jumping issues, itīd be a logical conclusion to have running also be limited by stamina or a cooldown.
Isnīt it? ;) :p

*LOL*

No.
Speed-run has a cooldown. There's no problem with that. Why not a cooldown for jumping? It's ONLY so that you don't have people pogosticking constantly. It's not crippling something to the same extent that running using stamina would, especially since running already exists and would be nerfed, while jumping is something that would be added, so not existing before means it's not being nerfed.

Also, besides the hypothetical where one person jumps down a cliff and is rezzed by the person above before they jump down and are rezzed by the person below (assuming the remaining person above doesn't gain the aggro the other one lost and gets their casting interrupted. but I do agree this situation is one to be taken under serious consideration.) , I don't think jumping would really change aggro that much. You can't jump up a cliff that easily. Ledges only go one way. Trying to jump UP a ledge would still be slow if it were very high, assuming you were even capable of pulling yourself up. Also, I imagine sufficient damage to you while pulling yourself up would cancel it. Being able to clear a vine on the ground is not that big a game-breaker. Besides, large mobs can just trample over them, and maybe plenty of mobs will also just jump over them. Then we have a new stat to keep track on mobs: height clearance. :> Ok, probably a pointless addition to the game. I'm just playing devil's advocate. (also, being able to drop down a short ledge instead of going around would be SO NICE)
Did I win the other argument(s) I was making, that now we're only talking about the one argument that I think is moot anyway? :>

[acridiel]

No.
Speed-run has a cooldown. There's no problem with that. Why not a cooldown for jumping?

And you didnīt realize what I was getting at. *LOL*
Iīd be very much thinner if Iīd jog through RL day in day out.
And, thatīs probably why there are so little "fat" homins around. :p

But your response again shows perfectly what I meant.
Constantly "running" through a Gameworld is considered normal and does hark no penalty whatsoever, or thought that it might just be a little bit unrealistic.
People accept it as a given and donīt think in such terms about it anymore.
If it werenīt for the "Pogo Folks", the whole discussion would probably run a completely different path.
I just think its funny. :p

CU
Acridiel

[faedyne]

And you didnīt realize what I was getting at. *LOL*
Iīd be very much thinner if Iīd jog through RL day in day out.
And, thatīs probably why there are so little "fat" homins around. :p

But your response again shows perfectly what I meant.
Constantly "running" through a Gameworld is considered normal and does hark no penalty whatsoever, or thought that it might just be a little bit unrealistic.
People accept it as a given and donīt think in such terms about it anymore.
If it werenīt for the "Pogo Folks", the whole discussion would probably run a completely different path.
I just think its funny. :p

Actually, it has less to do with realism, and more to do with what makes the game enjoyable. :> Where there's no cooldown for running, there is a cooldown for speed-run. One works while the other does not. Same consideration has to be made for things like jumping.

Same lack of realism in that fat homins have no function difference from thin homins. It's aesthetic. (and I've seen some fat Homins) :>

[acridiel]

You still think that "Irony" is a swiss watch, donīt you? ;) :p

CU
Acridiel

[jared96]

But the big question is could these changes be made to the game anyway, could the game support these features. It's possible it might not be able to.

From what I once wa stold, it would require a substantial redesign of the game. In talking way back in the early days of FBT, I had a long discussion one night with a CSR. The explanation given was that every design has tradeoffs and in doing what they wanted to do in Ryzom, they essentially gave up the Z axis. Yes, you can walk uphill but the reference point is not a particular elevation but imagine a wireframe or in layman's terms a piece of window screen. You can bend it to any shape you want and lay it on the table.

Now if you use the table as your reference point, the little plastic soldier you place on the screen will be at different elevations as he moves around. However, if the sceen is your refence point, then Z is always 0.

You can test this concept for example in LoC (Jugakoo's cave). If you are down "underground" in the cave you will be merrily be digging away and hear sounds of a mob attacking soemthing 60m above your head. Then boom, you get whacked by the mob 60m above you.

Somehow the game's AI knows enough not to let the mob attack you but you still get hit with AoE attacks if you occupy the same 2 dimesional space as the battle above your head. You can also stand on teh Fyros cliffs and hit things down in Scorched corridor when the height of those cliffs should be well above your spell range.

Again, not putting this out as something "I know" just an explanation that was provided by soemone reportedly in the know way back when.