So, are other races helping out the remaining ones?

[beaut666]

If so, is there any plan as to where to go first?

I was able to dig the mats for the Tryker, but not delivery (the mobs ate me.) So, any groups or plans?

Beau

[inifuss]

TRUDGE has moved to the forest regions as it appeared they needed the most help. As of yesterday they needed the 110q, 160q, 190q, and 210q mats for deliveries. They mats do not have to be dug from the forest area if you can find them anywhere else. We are running the deliveries but try to make sure we have something to deliver. :)

See you soon,
Ini

[xl2i5]

does anyone have a map of the spots in PR? pretty sure someone in guild can tell me.. but if someone already has a map.. thatd be ideal.
thank you,
<3

[inifuss]

I do not know of any maps for PR spots. You can find a list of the needed mats here though http://forum.ballisticmystix.net/jforum/posts/list/583.page. If you do find a map or find the spots, please forward onto the Ballistic Mystix forum and we will get it added to the thread.

Ini

[thlau]

No and a little bit.

Yes, I do delivery runs with my level 50 alternate Character in Witherings.
No, I don't think that helps when nobody provides the mats required.

Technically I could help the Matis, but I don't. Technically the Zorai don't let me help them, because Trini is a Tryker Citizen.

But the main reason why I lost interest in this event is the change of the delivery rates during the event. The raise of 0.14% to 1.25% per delivery felt like a slap in the face to all people that invested time to bring the Desert and Lakeland Surveillance camps into existence.

I like the fact that there is an event that allows to do things other than the normal 'day to day business'. But I don't like the implementation. It's immersion factor is - in my opinion - close to zero.

[sx4rlet]

I helped the zorai today. Helped digging q60 mats, together with Mercellus. But it looks kinda grave for the zorai, cause there are only crates ready for the first 2 towers...

I agree with Trini about change of delivery rate. I was online thursday, didnt log in some days, and suddenly fyros AND tryker were finished on saturday. Please next time, let the players finish it at their speed, cause this feels like cheating.

What I don't agree with Trini is that the immersion is close to zero. Yes, it could have been better, but beside that, I really felt I was rebuilding the civilization again, and the last time I felt that on Atys was a long long long time ago.

[thlau]

My lack of immersion issue is based on the lack of transparency in the construction of the surveillance camps, the concept of the delivery runs, and the fame requirements of the missions.

The foraging of raw materials is fine, I like that mission mats were brought to the attention of a broader audience in a global scale event.

What I don't like are the delivery runs. I think it is stupid to carry one parcel of building materials from one surveillance camp location to another. To me it would have been more logical if I had to carry one pack each to the surveillance camps. So one to Winds of Muse, one to Bounty Beaches, etc.
And the delivery then should have advance the progress the same percentage per delivery, until the camp is completed. I don't understand why one parcel first provides a higher percentage than the same type of parcel at a later time.

Then why do the delivery missions have such a high cool down time? Aren't the camps needed to be build fast?

I can understand the fame requirement on the delivery missions, as I understand that no one would like to give the precious building material to an untrusted homin. Now I don't understand the fame requirements on the foraging missions. What would be bad, if someone with a low or no fame provides building materials?

An quite irritated Trini

[inifuss]

There are things that were done great in this event and things that need to be improved. The dynamics of the event were really put together quite well and the time frame in which the world events are being given to us is to be applauded. Many of us want more events, many of us beg for more events, let's try to remember to let the devs and event team know that we do appreciate the events and tell them what we liked and didn't like so they, and we, can learn from the experience. I would think a new thread should be started about that on its own if the Ryzom team doesn't post one after the event is complete.

Though there have been frustrations, I have, within the big picture of the event, enjoyed this event very much. I have found if I did not dwell on the tracking list that I could remain immersed in the event for what it was given to us as. As I look around the forest region it saddens me that not more homins are coming to the aid of the Matis (and I assume Zorai). Within the immersion of the event, the kitins are threats to all of us, no matter where our homelands are.

Ini

[sx4rlet]

I can understand the fame requirement on the delivery missions, as I understand that no one would like to give the precious building material to an untrusted homin. Now I don't understand the fame requirements on the foraging missions. What would be bad, if someone with a low or no fame provides building materials?


Can you explain this? Because I dont understand what you mean.

Sx isnt a tryker citizen, (yeah shame on her!) she has become a homin without a homeland... But i could do the tryker missions (digging and delivery). And yesterday i did the digging for zorai too.

(then again, because I am without a homeland, I have positive fame for fyros, tryker and zorai, and most likely for matis too, although i don't know why...)

[inifuss]

Delivery missions require 10 racial fame and digging 15. You do not have to be a citizen; however, if you are a citizen then you recevied double(ish) the honor points.

Ini

[sx4rlet]

Delivery missions require 10 racial fame and digging 15. You do not have to be a citizen; however, if you are a citizen then you recevied double(ish) the honor points.

Ini

ah that's why Trini is irritated. And I must agree, I feel cheated !

[vonzuben]

Well I’m Matis but Tryker citizen :p So I helped in Lakes. Today I finally did some forest missions for the towers. Everyone needs to go help Forest and Jungle :) Currently it’s the foraging that’s lacking in the Foest.

[inifuss]

I think the reason Trini feels irritated (and I could be totally off based) is because they changed the delivery % per drop during the event. As the event unfolded it appeared the closer you got to completion the less crates delivered per parcel (started out 30 crates per parcel .42%, went to .21% - 15 creates at about 50% completion, .135% at around 65% - 10 crates). That makes a bit of sense in the overall scheme of an event. But then they threw some wacked out percentages in over last weekend after the Fyros towers were complete (or perhaps near the end of completion) and it really appeard to be no rhyme or reason, though I would think there was but am still unaware of it, and deliveries were anywhere from less than .21% Matis (don't remember the exact %), 1.25% - Tryker and 2.08% Zorai (I think, but I may have transposed the 8 and 0).

Now you may think, so what is the big deal? It made the towers get done quicker. Well, it was bascially a slap in the face for the diggers because they worked really, really hard to get the mats to the materials NPC for delivery. If they increased the delivery % then they did not need to forage as many materials and that is where I think some homin's became upset. Also, the area they might have wanted to increase the delivery % (Matis) it was DECREASED, apparently the matis are not as successful as getting their materials (I can attest to this with trying to gather homins for the TRUDGE teams) to the NPC, every little bit would help!

The % increase also hurt those who were helping with the event and could not join until later because it in effect gave them less honor points (more crates/less deliveries/less honor points). I know that you can still earn the honor points with the missions at this point but it would probably be best to talk to someone who had that issue to get a clearer understanding of their view point.

Another thing that I heard that people were irriated about was that they felt that Ryzom was not giving us a chance to fail. If they are boosting the % rates so that everything gets built then everything gets completed as requested and we, the players, really do not influence the game and our world after all and the only difference in our "evolving" servers is the language. We are just doing the events to make a pre-determined outcome happen and they might as well say, grind to build a tower and if it isn't done by this deadline, we will place them there anyway. In any event, there has to be the possiblity of failure if we are truely impacting our world.

I don't think the 10 and 15 civ fame would make anyone feel cheated.. Or I can't really see why. If you want to help out with a civilizations missions it makes since that you would need to have some type of good relationship with that civilization.

Sorry for the long post. Please excuse any misquoting of exact figures (the concept is the same if the numbers are wrong).

And yes.. Mats are needed in Forest (q160+) and Jungle. Please help out as best you can.

Ini
*hugz, luvz n cookies*

[thlau]

I don't think the 10 and 15 civ fame would make anyone feel cheated.. Or I can't really see why. If you want to help out with a civilizations missions it makes since that you would need to have some type of good relationship with that civilization.


I my opinion the simple fact that civilization fame is a requirement to provide construction materials let me assume that the situation isn't as bad as the leaders of the four nations want us to believe. If it really would be that bad, the prospectors would accept the raw materials of everyone regardless of their standing with the culture.

That the frontier supplier only entrust the parcels with people of a certain civilization fame I can understand.

[sidusar]

I agree with Trini about change of delivery rate. I was online thursday, didnt log in some days, and suddenly fyros AND tryker were finished on saturday. Please next time, let the players finish it at their speed, cause this feels like cheating.

What I don't agree with Trini is that the immersion is close to zero. Yes, it could have been better, but beside that, I really felt I was rebuilding the civilization again, and the last time I felt that on Atys was a long long long time ago.
I agree with both of this. :)

I was really disappointed what they did with the delivery % per drop over the weekend. :( After the Fyros towers were complete, it was increased by about a factor 10! As if for some reason the Tryker towers just had to be completed on that Saturday. After those were finished the rate fell back to about twice what it was before the weekend - and from then on it felt rather futile to still work on the remaining towers. Why should I do deliveries for a 0.42% increase now, if I can just wait for the devs to boost the rate to 2.08% again and do the deliveries then?

But Ini already explained in great detail what's wrong with this, so I won't repeat it. In regards to the "chance to fail" though, I'll add that in addition to working on the towers feeling futile now, I actually actively want to boycot the building just to see if the devs will allow us to fail. :p If my feelings about this are at all representative of a sizeable part of the Ryzom population, it's no wonder we lost steam.

But yes, the immersion factor in this event was truly awesome. All the buildup of the kitin presence leading up to this, rebuilding the civilizations finally, customised speeches for every civilization to bring their differences to life. Lovely. It's a shame that they're now letting it bleed to death though - much as I love this event lasting several weeks, such a length means that it needs regular 'mini-happenings' to keep it alive. Those don't need to complicated, but I feel the completion of the Fyros towers should've at least warranted a congratulatory speech from an Imperial Representative, and urges from all the other civilization's leaders to hurry up with their own towers. This, I think, would've done far more to keep the event alive than the temporary boosting of the %-rates did. :o

[ldjaggy]

I my opinion the simple fact that civilization fame is a requirement to provide construction materials let me assume that the situation isn't as bad as the leaders of the four nations want us to believe. If it really would be that bad, the prospectors would accept the raw materials of everyone regardless of their standing with the culture.

That the frontier supplier only entrust the parcels with people of a certain civilization fame I can understand.


Think of it from this aspect.... A Zorai with negative fame with the Matis... Thus the Matis people could consider that Homin to be an enemy. Why would you accept anything from an enemy? .... It could be a Bomb for all they know!

Having a little positive Civilization fame means that that particular Civilization trusts you. In that, its a good aspect for this event, due to the lore. As a Tryker citizen, you would never be able to help the Zorai because of your differences in opinions and actions and history. But as someone who is neutrally aligned, you have a chance for all the Civilizations to look kindly upon you.

I see it as Cause and Effect.

[thlau]

Think of it from this aspect.... A Zorai with negative fame with the Matis... Thus the Matis people could consider that Homin to be an enemy. Why would you accept anything from an enemy? .... It could be a Bomb for all they know!

Having a little positive Civilization fame means that that particular Civilization trusts you. In that, its a good aspect for this event, due to the lore. As a Tryker citizen, you would never be able to help the Zorai because of your differences in opinions and actions and history. But as someone who is neutrally aligned, you have a chance for all the Civilizations to look kindly upon you.

I see it as Cause and Effect.

This sounds like something a Matis would think, that all who are not friends are enemies and to be feared.

In my opinion the Lore can only be a guideline and not a corset into which I am forced. If lore is inflexible and fixed, unable to develop it is dead. We the players are the only ones to change at least small portions of it.

Currently the existing fame system is such a corset. You can roleplay to extend the lore but the current system in no way can reflect changes that happen in the game. The current fame isn't about trust, it is about denying trust in a homin, because of the allegiance he pledged.

Mainly I don't understand that some homin that pledged allegiance to one of the four nations who's leader signed the Treaty of the four people is regarded with less respect than an unaligned homin. Worse even that they are despised. So does this negate the Treaty. Was the blood of Still Wylers spilled to no end? The Blood that as the signature of the leaders marks the Treaty?

[suib0m]

In response to Trini..

Lore is a framework, not just a guideline. By the way you talk, and many similar arguments before, it sounds like the lore should be shrugged off and ignored except for bits that are fun or cater to the way someone wants to play. Personally, I have issue with this mindset. I understand it and don't think it's bad, per-se, but it doesn't help immersion or obtaining any kind of historical perspective to this game.

Yes the four leaders signed a peace treaty, but it is tenuous at best and not necessarily followed by the citizenships. For the most part, and particularly for Fyros and Matis, it seems that the civ leader is largely a figurehead and that there are factions beneath that have sway with the people, who are still scared and likely would be untrusting of strangers, prodded on by political leaders who are vying for control.

Given that, the civ fame needed for the missions was only 10. This is rather small and does seem appropriate. It is a level of trust that someone will not be undermining their efforts to protect their land (I mean, I wouldn't put it past an enterprising Matis, Fyros, or even Tryker to disrupt the flow of materials to either destabilize a region or profit from the action..). There are many homins who have excellent fame with all of the races, whose effort does make sense that they would best be able to profit diplomatically by helping each of the races.

Pick up the gauntlet, grind that civ fame to usable levels to show you can be trusted by a peoples who distrust you because of the past actions of your race.

Anyways.. now I'm distracted.. hopefully that made some bit of sense.

Peace,
- Sui

[sx4rlet]

Given that, the civ fame needed for the missions was only 10. This is rather small and does seem appropriate. It is a level of trust that someone will not be undermining their efforts to protect their land (I mean, I wouldn't put it past an enterprising Matis, Fyros, or even Tryker to disrupt the flow of materials to either destabilize a region or profit from the action..). There are many homins who have excellent fame with all of the races, whose effort does make sense that they would best be able to profit diplomatically by helping each of the races.

True. Except that, if i remember correct, a Tryker Citizen cannot get positive fame with the Zorai, no matter what he does, because of the fame restrictions (mechanics) of the game.

[thlau]

Pick up the gauntlet, grind that civ fame to usable levels to show you can be trusted by a peoples who distrust you because of the past actions of your race.


Dear Suibom, I assume you always stayed neutral to the civilizations so I understand that you does not know what happens to the fame caps when you pledge allegiance to a civilization. As Trini became a Tryker citizen her Zorai fame was reduced from about 80 of the old fame system to 0 in the new one.
0 is the maximum fame a Tryker citizen can reach under the current fame system.

And don't think I shun the fame grind fur the ridiculous 10 points, it just is impossible for me to do so!

[acridiel]

Dear Suibom, I assume you always stayed neutral to the civilizations so I understand that you does not know what happens to the fame caps when you pledge allegiance to a civilization. As Trini became a Tryker citizen her Zorai fame was reduced from about 80 of the old fame system to 0 in the new one.
0 is the maximum fame a Tryker citizen can reach under the current fame system.

And don't think I shun the fame grind fur the ridiculous 10 points, it just is impossible for me to do so!

And you might have noticed that each and every one of us who took a citizenship received this treatment.
As a Matis my fame with the Fyros is Zero, Zip, Nada, None, Nix, Niente, 0.

Do I complain? Why should I?

Its only natural political evolution.
If I as a German, would suddenly want to crop up in Africa somewhere and want to help build a house, most people probably would look pretty much sideways at me. True some would welcome my help. But never all.
Jeez people, use your imagination a bit, and donīt take everything at face value and so extremely serious.

Nobody complains about a Horde Char. not being able to built a shelter for an Alliance Char, on Azeroth... *rolleyes*

So what? The Zorai donīt want Trykers to help them, the Fyros donīt like Matis strolling around their cities, the reverse is true for the other races.
Whatīs the point in arguing about it?

The Story continues, if itīll be all out war, or peace, still lies with us.
If the leaders might one day, god forbid, declare war on the other nations...
what If we just donīt show up?

We might be obliged to follow them, but weīre not forbidden to state our mind and act the way yīknow.
Just an example.

The Lore and the continous story are just frameworks for us to build our own stories in the World of Atys. Some rules have got to apply, if not, thereīs nothing much to work with, or obstacles to overcome.

As long as a Fame 0 Player isnīt outright killed by NPCs for entering a city of a rival race, its just something to "play with". To built your story around.
And not to see as a hindrance to the way you want to play.

Chess has got a set of strict rules too.
I wouldnīt think of changing them.

Same with most any other game out there.

Anyway, before I get my usual set of slaps for speaking here, Iīll get away and let you think ;)

CU
Acridiel

[suib0m]

Dear Suibom, I assume you always stayed neutral to the civilizations so I understand that you does not know what happens to the fame caps when you pledge allegiance to a civilization. As Trini became a Tryker citizen her Zorai fame was reduced from about 80 of the old fame system to 0 in the new one.
0 is the maximum fame a Tryker citizen can reach under the current fame system.

And don't think I shun the fame grind fur the ridiculous 10 points, it just is impossible for me to do so!

Dear Trini,
Assumptions are a killer, aren't they :)? I am Matis, I came to the mainland in search of information about my adoptive father, I strived to become a productive member of my people and to join a strong and able guild. I had high hopes. I achieved some of that, I became a Matis citizen.

And then I discovered the truth about how things work. I was led astray was stonewalled about information on my father. I had to lose my kinship to him because of the beliefs of the people. I lost the guild I was part of because the search for my father was destroying me; realizing that my people are not as noble as the stories I heard as a child (obviously not my people as a whole, just some of the more influential leaders). It turns out that my father was involved with Elias and was killed as a known Trytonist. For my safety I realized that I must publicly, for now, disavow my involvement. Though I know King Yrkanis would likely not shun me, because I try to work hard for the betterment of my people, I also know that other political leaders in the Matis monarchy would happily destroy me as an example of "lack of faith".

When I finally began to pull myself together and forge a new path through life on Atys, I publicly renounced my Matis citizenship. It was painful, and it was sad, but it was a choice that I had to make to meet the objectives I have laid out for myself. I may become a Matis citizen again at some point, or possibly a Tryker citizen. But for now, I am not racially aligned.


So, you see, I do understand the situation and I still do not agree with the supposed stance that game mechanics are interfering with roleplay aspects when lore and the belief of the peoples is just thrown aside.

Through my writings and posts to the roleplay site, I hope to help affect change in the game, because I would love it if we all worked together to defeat the kitin and the Dragon. Can I do it? I dunno.. hopefully. I have faith that my voice means something. But I will try to do it within the boundaries that have been put in place for me, because my character would not know better and would have heavy prejudices ingrained from birth.



Peace,
- Sui