Instant focus regen a bit to much?

[mrozzy]

Well, after last patch I like the way harvesting works, except for one thing, the instant focus regen. With the amount of mats harvesters can pull now (upto 16 mats after lvl 150) the instant focus regen will spoil the crafters with mats.
But, the focus consumption after p1 was a bit to much of a nerf to .. so I think we'll need something inbetween to balance it right.

I'll just make a poll to see what you all think about it.

[ozric]

I think its too early to say yet. On the surface it seems to be a very good deal for harvesters. BUT (and its a big but) there are also some "unannounced" changes to harvesting, that nobody seems to have spotted yet (at least theres nothing on the forums about it as far as i can see). These should become apparent to all in the next few days however ;)

So my vote would be, keep it as it is for a while, until the full implications of the harvest changes have taken effect.

[oloriun]

I think its too early to say yet. On the surface it seems to be a very good deal for harvesters. BUT (and its a big but) there are also some "unannounced" changes to harvesting, that nobody seems to have spotted yet (at least theres nothing on the forums about it as far as i can see). These should become apparent to all in the next few days however ;)

So my vote would be, keep it as it is for a while, until the full implications of the harvest changes have taken effect.


hehe

The regain is fine, even before patch 1 the rate at which you gained mats wasnt really enough to support a crafter very well, seems devs have finally realised that.

[shrike]

About the "full implications".

Lvl 178 harvester now. I pull 10 q180 mats per minute. No downtime, so 600 Mats/hour. That are at a NPC with decent fame 1 million dappers.
Getting every 80 seconds 1700 - 1800 exp - 2 lvls before I get a higher mat qual.

Now, compare the exp and dapper/time with fighters or mages of that lvl (or half the money income and compare it with lvl 100 fighter/mages.

If they keep this we have in 2 weeks a lot more of lvl 200+ harvesters with tons and tons of dappers, a wrecked economy (overabanduance of mats & dappers) and fighter/mages which struggle to equip themselves.

[ozric]

About the "full implications".


No, you have overlooked something ;)

*Edit* Removed the clue, im sure you will see fairly soon. :D

[lazarus]

How can an overabundance of mats be bad?

You know, I do get a little annoyed sometimes. We had a real problem with a severe mat shortage, and now they fixed it we get people saying it's too many.

Well, I (and everyone I've spoken to) think that this is the best thing that could have happened to the game. Foraging has *finally* come home - mats are plentiful and cheap, just as they should be. The problems come when stuff is too rare and becomes prohibitively expensive so only the people who have time to play 18 hours a day can afford them. I am in a position now where I can happily supply myself and at least one other person on my own, with a reasonable XP gain thrown in. I went from level 108.5 to 110 today in about 4 hours foraging q100 mats, and came away with nine full stacks of mats that either I or someone else can use to gain craft levels.

Why is that so evil? Why will that 'wreck' the game? Simple - it won't. What will happen is that equipment will become more readily available to all, whereas before if you weren't in a strong guild you were stuffed. Now, the 'casual' player and soloist will be able to obtain the kit they need without having to pay millions for it. That can only be a good thing.

Why do people obsess about the 'economy' in MMOGs? This is a game, not real life.

[jokque]

yay for pendulum-nerfing

first harvesting worked fine, yea people leveled fast but THEY PLAYED A GOD DAMN LOT ! (The fact that someone hit top lvl after 2 weeks in CoH didnt bother anyone, that player had played for 20 hours a day on average.)

Then they nerf harvesting into oblivion, making in a near useless skill

Then they unnerf it to a state thats even better than pre patch ?
...
Why couldnt you just have left the game alone, and fixed affliction spells, and maybe increase the max xp you can get while teamed if encouraging teaming was your idea

[shrike]

No, you have overlooked something ;)

*Edit* Removed the clue, im sure you will see fairly soon. :D

Actually I won't because it's pretty empty where I am harvesting. Will only effect areas which are *heavily* overpopulated with diggers like certain fyros locations.

[helbreat]

Well, after last patch I like the way harvesting works, except for one thing, the instant focus regen. With the amount of mats harvesters can pull now (upto 16 mats after lvl 150) the instant focus regen will spoil the crafters with mats.
But, the focus consumption after p1 was a bit to much of a nerf to .. so I think we'll need something inbetween to balance it right.

I'll just make a poll to see what you all think about it.

the exp is alot lower now for me when harvesting so i believe the regen just compensates for the crap exp :)

[ozric]

Actually I won't because it's pretty empty where I am harvesting. Will only effect areas which are *heavily* overpopulated with diggers like certain fyros locations.
I thought the feature was activated in the patch, so my mistake about that, ive just not noticed before where i harvest usually. But when it does occur (and this is hastened now by the fact that more mats get pulled with the current system), where do you think those harvesters will go ? ;) We have no way of knowing the effects, how long they will last or even what we can do to avoid them in the first place. It may not affect the higher lvl harvesters initially, but i wouldnt get too complacent about the situation.

With regards to the instant regen issue, im still undecided. I think its still too early to say one way or the other.

[usinuk]

You know, the more I've been harvesting under the second patch (as opposed to grinding crafting or hunting) the more I'm getting concerned about this.

Essentially, what has been done to harvest in the latest patch is to make it ridiculously easy for high level folks...and still a pain for low level folks.

Why?

The benefits of the second patch really don't start kicking in until you have, oh, about 1200 focus or so. At that point, you should have harvest speed and rate features as well as extended harvest time and mat specialization. Given instaregen, you can do insane cost gentle stanzas that let you pull anywhere between 8-12 mats (assuming you use terrain spec and bonus time prospecting) without any real downtime and any real risk of death. Experience isn't as good as it was prepatch, but yowzers, getting a stack of 99 will take you all of about 5 minutes.

That's a lot of mats, and the implications for the higher end market are somewhat unsettling.

Now compare that to the lower end market.

You have limited focus and so more than likely you'll run out very quickly even with regen, you don't have access to mat specialization yet so getting large stacks isn't likely, you don't have the hps to survive blasts and clouds, and q50 just doesn't mean as much as it used to.

This doesn't feel right. I'm starting to get concerned as I am about crafting, even though I personally benefit from both situations.

[ixils]

You know, the more I've been harvesting under the second patch (as opposed to grinding crafting or hunting) the more I'm getting concerned about this.

Essentially, what has been done to harvest in the latest patch is to make it ridiculously easy for high level folks...and still a pain for low level folks.

Why?

The benefits of the second patch really don't start kicking in until you have, oh, about 1200 focus or so. At that point, you should have harvest speed and rate features as well as extended harvest time and mat specialization. Given instaregen, you can do insane cost gentle stanzas that let you pull anywhere between 8-12 mats (assuming you use terrain spec and bonus time prospecting) without any real downtime and any real risk of death. Experience isn't as good as it was prepatch, but yowzers, getting a stack of 99 will take you all of about 5 minutes.

That's a lot of mats, and the implications for the higher end market are somewhat unsettling.

Now compare that to the lower end market.

You have limited focus and so more than likely you'll run out very quickly even with regen, you don't have access to mat specialization yet so getting large stacks isn't likely, you don't have the hps to survive blasts and clouds, and q50 just doesn't mean as much as it used to.

This doesn't feel right. I'm starting to get concerned as I am about crafting, even though I personally benefit from both situations.

After these days now I am getting used to things but I agree that I have these concerns that simply do not go away. Yup... I can pull a bunch of mats and working in a team it is pretty much a given that the only one who has to do anything is the care giver who might need to move between ground stability and preservation in order to have enough focus to care the entire clock... even with a huge amount of focus.

So... I am getting a lot of mats. I have been only selling the best PR mats on the vendors. I have to sell the mats that do not match up to even numbers because of the stacking limits on my packies. I have not taken much time to do anything but forage now and I am falling behind my guildmates in fighting skills. This is a small concern as I was hoping that I could keep up with them in providing good materials for the items that they need.

I find that no matter how perfect the pull, the max xp I get now is from 1200 to 1400 so in truth I can manage to keep up at places where I have known spots. I am over 113 in forest and am needing to seek out new locations as my xp at q100 sources has dropped to the 600-800 range. I try to find my own... but I am hoping to get some advice on where to go cause it is not a very viable place either on the Knoll of Dissent or in Heritics Hovel. Avoiding aggro has been one of the more fun things up to now because it has been possible. But with mobs single hitting me... it has sort of lost the fun factor.

sigh.... I continue to try to be positive and know that things needed to be made harder. But there is just a lot of problems that make me question my desire to remain in the game. Right now my guild and other friends are holding me here. The game has lost my desire to play though. Makes me sad.

Atanna

[shrike]

Jeppers.

lvl 180, 2748 focus.

12 mats..11 mats..12..12.. ... ..teleport to city to put mats in packer/sell/craft..teleport back to harvest area..12...

Also 2k exp for each pull I might add. It is really ridiculous atm, fighter & mages have it quite hard now while harvesting got boosted till there's no tomorrow. Totally removes to fun out of the game for me. What is the point in making items when using them is pointless anyway?

Harvesting got so easy that it is becoming uninteresting while fighting/magic got so hard that it became uninteresting.

The only light on the horizon is that the WoW Open Beta is starting soon, I don't see one in Ryzom, though.

[alugilac]

Jeppers.

lvl 180, 2748 focus.

12 mats..11 mats..12..12.. ... ..teleport to city to put mats in packer/sell/craft..teleport back to harvest area..12...

Also 2k exp for each pull I might add. It is really ridiculous atm, fighter & mages have it quite hard now while harvesting got boosted till there's no tomorrow. Totally removes to fun out of the game for me. What is the point in making items when using them is pointless anyway?

Harvesting got so easy that it is becoming uninteresting while fighting/magic got so hard that it became uninteresting.

The only light on the horizon is that the WoW Open Beta is starting soon, I don't see one in Ryzom, though.



I'm going to remind you of the days when hunting parties were nakid. When everyone in a guild had to buy / provide their own mats for equipment and for the most part meant hours and hours of foraging.

A guild of 40 people use 5160 mats just to get each one 1 suit of heavy armor. This does not include Magic amps, Light armor stat sets, or weapons. Mat intake was WAY behind. At least now when things wear out and vanish its not a full time job to make another set of armor.

A system is broke when people would rather fight nakid then do what it takes to be able to wear armor. I dont see people fighting nakid now. Foraging is finally FINALLY where it should be, and trust me.. when the market gets filled with all the nice equipment the cash you can make from foraging will be sorely needed. Lots of cash sinks in the game now.

I harvested non stop for 12 hours straight to lvl from 147.5 to 150. The lvling is a lot slower now. To me its balanced just fine.

[mrozzy]

After a week or so harvesting, I got to change my opinion about this. Before the patch and instant focus regeneration, harvesters were unable to supply enough mats for the crafters. Now it seems to be balanced quite ok, and harvesters, as well as fighters and mages are getting thier skills at about the same paste (for example: when a fighter and a crafter start on the same day and play about the same amount of time, the crafter will be able to supply the fighter with q80 gear when the fighter about reaches that level).

About the amount of mats pulled at higher levels: Its very true that lvl 100-150 harvesters can pull like 7-10 times the amount of mats a lvl 30-50 can. But keep in mind that all the crafting trees split around level 100. If a crafter wants to be able to make all the wepons or pieces of armour as he/she could do before he'll need to have 4-7 times the amount of mats to do it, the extraction rate benefits compensates that.

So, conclusion: I think the devs took a big risk changing harvesting so sudden the way they did, but in the end, it turned out great. So, nice job devs!

[ethania]

I like the new system, it even makes foraging social. Now I can use careplans. I like those! But whit the recovery-issue. I got a thought about makeing the recovery somehow correspond to your will. Otherwise the will-stat is pointless. Isn't it?

And to you Shrike: Isn't it great someone finaly made a online-game that suits your neads? I mean, whit so many peaople leaving mmorpg like this for WoW. And most becouse they won't be served on a silverplates. Now finaly you will all be under the same roof whit the perfect game... I bet all your wishes will come true!

[kaetemi]

Are you people talking about the fact that Kami dropped to 50% once in Thesos, cause of all the explosions that happened over there? (it goes down 1 pixel / explosion, or something like that)

[usinuk]

I'm going to remind you of the days when hunting parties were nakid. When everyone in a guild had to buy / provide their own mats for equipment and for the most part meant hours and hours of foraging...Lots of cash sinks in the game now...I harvested non stop for 12 hours straight to lvl from 147.5 to 150. The lvling is a lot slower now. To me its balanced just fine.

Yep, the system was broken before. I'm not going to argue with the stupid equipment decay rate fix, which was long overdue. I wish the two had come in separately so we could judge what did what. I also am not going to argue with slower leveling.

But...I think you're completely wrong on the cash sinks, and that's one of my major concerns. Massive influx of materials = massive influx of dappers = eventual inflation. Lots of dappers chasing lots of goods. Cash sinks drain money from the economy, and its clear that this is increasing money supply, not decreasing it. The only way this becomes a credit sink is if enough crafters leave the game and no one replaces them, pushing up item prices, both of which are fairly likely given what they've done to crafting. The two probably don't balance out in timing, meaning you get deflation and then inflation. Neither is good.

And no one's response talks about the grind upwards. And that really concerns me as well. There aren't going to be a lot of lower level harvesters. This and crafting just clobber younger players who don't want to be pure fighters, and that's unfair to them. (Then again, if they get to buy Ryzom for E24.95 maybe that's appropriate.)

[borg9]

Have I missed something here?

Before patch 1:

You bought max Will and max Focus, at key points you could harvest non-stop.

Your Will balanced the credit used for harvesting.

XP - you progression up your main tree was straight foward, it peeked and troughed. It would slow till you hit a ql mile stone then for a while it would be 3k for a short while, reducing upto the next mile stone.

All other terrains were 3k a pull.

Pre mat spec change 3k was possible on every pull after level 60.

Mode 1 - allowed safe harvest.

Care plans were not required!

Harvest rates were ok 1.5hr for 400 ish mats at around level 80-100.

After patch 1

Every pull left you with zero focus or dead.

After patch 1++

You can only harvest max +10 above your level in an area, +20 is unreliable, +30 is not worth the effort.

You have a nice full Foucs bar after each pull: unless you die, use a pop-up source, don't complete the harvest.

Prospecting and crafting requires Will to regen focus used.

So patch 1++

means an increase in production rate (more mats) if you are careful. Rewards high level foragers with massive pulls. The source needs to be cared for to keep it alive.

Lvl 100 lake harvesters doesn't instantly mean you get high ql mats and 3k pulls in every other region.

These are all positive changes.

Change to fight/magic - so it now not possible to hunt lvl250 mobs with blind 1.

There maybe bugs with mobs hitting rapidly or aggroing for massive distances these can and will be fixed. Fight and magic has been restricted, a balance will be found.

Crafters can't make loads of money by missions so are now driven to sell their wares to vendors, time will tell if this is a major issue.

Population levels I am told are dropping. Everywhere I have been I have seen groups of people. I can't tell if there are less than before. We are now out of the 'free month' and first month pay, more betas for other games are about and new releases with a 'free month' are about. I would expect a pop drop at this point.

Anyone reading these forums would think twice about playing. The people who love the game are either playing it or have given up fighting against the negative. Why both when people who claim they like the game spam the forums with just the bad stuff.

People screamed for changes, demanded the patches - 'give me a patch/content or I will quit' type stuff!. The patch comes and now they want to go back to the way it was. Make-up your minds please!

I find navigating the roots very very hard but not impossible.
I find some of the aggro changes have made some areas 'off-limits'.

There are some silly things like level 50 areas that a 'no-go' for anyone. These have been ticketed. I am sure this will change.

Pre-patch 1 reaching 'The Hole' in matis was almost impossible, last night I made the jounery with a friend with ease. Entrance to the roots there was very hard, but again not impossible. After on three or four attempts I could get halfway to the teleporter.

When trying to die to catch a death taxi in matis it took me 15mins to find something that could kill me in Majestic Gardens. It took 3 baying Ragus to kill me in medium armour, armed with a pike as a lvl 56 fighter. I parried 50% of thier attack.

Do I have a different version of the game to everyone esle.

I am loving the changes, using my maxed-out death penalty to explore and experiment with the mob changes. It may take me a few hours to clear it when I stop, but dying should be something to be avoided. Clearing DP should be hard. Its a penalty after all!

You can't tell a whiner to stop whining - it makes them whine even more.

However when the subs of the 'i am quiting crowd' run out. We will have the old community back that, made constructive post about what is right or wrong with the game.

Looking foward to the changing world of Atys - As I said to my friend this morning, 'I will play even if there was only 2 people on the server!' Not becuase of Nervax, becuase the world of Atys is so very different from everything else on the market.

[mboeing]

Have I missed something here?
Crafters can't make loads of money by missions so are now driven to sell their wares to vendors, time will tell if this is a major issue.

Population levels I am told are dropping. Everywhere I have been I have seen groups of people. I can't tell if there are less than before. We are now out of the 'free month' and first month pay, more betas for other games are about and new releases with a 'free month' are about. I would expect a pop drop at this point.

...

People screamed for changes, demanded the patches - 'give me a patch/content or I will quit' type stuff!. The patch comes and now they want to go back to the way it was. Make-up your minds please!


- Crafters : it is not as if crafters even with the amount of money they were able to make could keep up with the demand. Now it is virtually impossible. Look at the resource prices. Look at what you get for selling stuff (yes with people killing mobs slower they awre not able to gain as many mats anymore to turn into dappers so they can't buy anything anymore) All the mats to lvl crafting will have to be harvested mainly. This is a big time factor. Most people that harvest are crafters too, because it makes absolutely no sense to give all the harvested mats to a guild mate who can give you nothing but a few crafted items that you don't need (if you are pure harvester)

- Just can tell the numbers from my guild: 10 people quit already. 15 more are going to at least try out WoW. We used to have an average number of 20-25 players online. Now its around 5-10.

- Everyone wanted CONTENT. Nobody asked for balancing. Everyone I talked to said he was fine with how the game worked. The only thing that should have been needed to fix were the broken affliction spells. If Blind, etc would have been really limited to the mob lvls they were supposed to work on it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. But why take the easy road if there is a more difficult one.

[shrike]

Same here.. My friends list is never more than 50% full now. It's a quite busy day when there are even 33% of all people online there.

2-3 Weeks ago it was often 80-100%.

About the exp: Sure you need more exp at higher lvls, but - newsflash - so do the other classes. Meaning the exp need for one lvl doesn't matter, what matters is the speed a profession gain exp compared to others.

And, sure, highlvl (aka 100+) mage/fighters can still get 2k exp/mob. But only if they group, and are a good effecient group. In harvesting you can do this alone by clicking the right buttoms every 30 sec....

(If anyone now wants to say "But you need to group in harvesting now". You don't. Please tell me that you are getting less than half the amount of mats alone using full gentle & care plans than grouping. You don't. I get alone 11-12 mats and with a mats caring 13-15 mats.)

[seawe]

IMHO this regeneration thing makes harvesting way to easy when coupled with the multiple mats. It spoils foragers, especially since foarages aren't anywhere near as finicky as they were before, ie. they don't gas or blow up very often.

Too easy.